Spend A Buck

[Patuxet]

John Sparkman has a good piece in the online Thoroughbred Times Today on Spend A Buck's influence.

Here's the link - Sparkman's article is on page 5:
http://www.thoroughbredtimes.com/media/ ... 031309.pdf

The failure of the Thoroughbred establishment to support Spend A Buck as a stallion is a cautionary tale on the not so subtle power that the racing elite wield in this country. Cross them -- i.e tell them that their Triple Crown isn't all that important -- and they'll bite you in the ass and hit you in the wallet. Spend A Buck's success in Brazil reveals that they'll also cut off their noses to spite their faces. I wonder if that spite will extend to the syndication of Einstein?

[oliverstoned]

I think Spend A Buck is underated as a racehorse too. I wonder what kind of speed figures he would have earned when he won those two preps at Garden State and then burned all oposition into the ground in the Derby "it's all Spend A Buck by five". Imagine the odds of the new Garden State putting that 2 mil bonus out that year and having a horse come along that could actually do it. So go to the Jersey Derby for 2.6milion dollars (unheard of at that time) or I think 300,000 for the Preakness. I kind of doubt he would have won the triple any way but you never know after all the horse he beat in the Jersey Derby came back several days later and won the Belmont. Then they ran him in the Haskell (too soon, kinda like Seattle Slew in the Swaps) and Skip Trial blows by him and there his career ends. I alway wonder what he could have done later or if he had a top tier trainer. So anyway I'd send a mare to Einstein and I've heard he's a nice horse to look at too.

[el camino]

Sunday Silence too..........

[oliverstoned]

Sunday Silence too..........

Yeah him too, but I have to admit back then I was a big Alydar fan and got caught up in the storyline of Easy Goer avenging his Daddy's losses. In hindsight I wish Sunday Silence had won the triple. If he had I bet he wouldn't have went to Japan and we'd have a bit better gene pool here right now.

[Mahubah]

May not be quite as simple as it looks, though. Spend a Buck tended to throw iffy knees (common to the Buckpasser line), and Sunday Silence also tended to transmit less than pretty underpinnings (his own legs weren't things of beauty -- typical Halo). Both were probably better off in countries where two-year-old racing receives much less emphasis and where most of the racing is done on turf as their offspring had better opportunities to stay sound as they matured under those conditions. Also, Sunday Silence took advantage of a Japanese mare population more heavily saturated with Northern Dancer (particularly through Northern Taste) than is the case here, thus benefiting from the Halo/Northern Dancer cross.

[oliverstoned]

Mahubah, not to completely discount your point but I do think we had/have a pretty good supply of Northern Dancer line mares here with a much greater variety of branches than Japan plus we have a great number of Mr P. which I love under a Hail to Reason line. I am under no illusions that SS would have achieved the legendary status he did in Japan but all it takes is one great siring son to carry the line on (as AP Indy has done for Seattle Slew). As for the conformational flaws, well that hasn't stopped Storm Cat and countless others.

[Busanda]

Re: Spend a Buck, his female family is still not respected. You can pick up decent producers from this immediately family for next to nothing at sales. And the sales companies relegate them to the back of every sale.

It's actually a stronger family than they get credit for. They trace back to Adargatis, the only female sibling (half) to the great La Troienne. Vindication is a recent example of an Adargatis-line runner and sire from this branch.

[Mahubah]

Yes, there are plenty of Northern Dancer-line mares here, but the percentage carrying that blood among Japan's elite Thoroughbreds was, I think, substantially higher at the time Sunday Silence went to stud than it was in the comparable stratum here. Also, I doubt Sunday Silence would have gotten the quality of those he got at Shadai Stud, where so many of Northern Taste's best daughters were bred. And while conformation isn't everything, it is important. Some horses have made fine sires despite conformation failings, but others have had their careers severely compromised because they consistently threw some fault that led to early unsoundness. While it's possible that Sunday Silence's progeny would have held up OK on American dirt, it's also possible that Sunday Silence would have turned out a turf sire here, which is of course a kiss of death with the commercial market even though a horse may be turning out some very good runners. One never can tell.

[bdw0617]

will enstien be spend a bucks only son in america at stud? when he eventually does go?

[Busanda]

There's probably a great chance Einstein goes to South America. I hope not but they'll find him really attractive.

There's a Spend a Buck son in LA. Pico Central was also in Florida but I believe he's in Korea now. His oldest are 2.

[Coaltown]

Spend a Buck was very fast but he also raced on a lot of medications. That's one reason why he didn't pursue NY racing, particularly the Belmont Stakes - in those days NY didn't allow race day meds. Spend A Buck was a bleeder and a bute horse, too if I recall. But he was blindingly fast under the influence....

Buckpasser line stallions have never done well in KY, but have a great record in South America. And South American horses, with the exception of Forli and Lord At War have done badly in KY. Must have something to do with how they fit - or don't fit - into the local gene pool. I like Einstein and I think he should be given a chance as a stallion in KY, but don't know if he can pull off the elusive success in that environment.

[oliverstoned]

Thanks coaltown I knew there was some other good reason to go in the Jersey Derby, I forgot about the Lasix thing.
Mahubah, Dynaformer and El Prado did not retire triple crown winners and fought their way to elite status primarily as turf stallions not to mention Northern Dancer. SS would have had at least 150-200 foals from the first three crops and you gotta believe would have had enough success to maintain a decent quality of mares. I guess I agree Japan was the best place for him as you say but my selfish and nationalist side of me wishes he stayed here.

[xfactor fan]

Just a note on Sunday Silence. I've always thought there was more back story going on.

There was the East Coast vs West thing, with Easy Goer being the hometown favorite from the Kentucky faction, and of course he was bred by Seth Hancock.

Sunday Silence was bred by Arthur Hancock, and trained by Charlie Whittingham, based in California.

So there was regional rivalry, and sibling rivalry going on with the two horses.

Don't know if anyone else remembers a interview with Whittingham after Sunday Silence got beat by Easy Goer, but his feeling was that the other jockeys "ganged" up on Sunday Silence to ensure a win by Easy Goer. Essentially several other jockeys were not riding their horses for a win, but to guarantee that Easy Goer would win.

Has anyone looked at the race with this angle in mind?

[oliverstoned]

xfactor,

Kind of rings a bell. Just watched the race race on youtube. Le Voyager went 23 1/5----47------1:11 1/5------1:35 4/5 before yielding to SS and Easy Goer but hung pretty close to SS to the finish, meanwhile Easy Goer opened up on both of them and won in a real fast final time. Easy Goer was within a length of SS at 3/4 in 1:11 1/5, at one time I think at the half Dave Johnson said they were going 3 seconds faster than Affirmed& Alydar. I can't remember was lasix a factor in this one too? Also I don't know who was riding Le Voyager.

[Mahubah]

Dynaformer and El Prado indeed but made fine reputations primarily on turf sires, but how many years did it take them to get to the top of the stallion market? And even after siring top dirt runners like Perfect Drift and Critical Eye (Dynaformer) and Medaglia d'Oro and Borrego (El Prado), these horses still don't get the respect at the top of the commercial market that top dirt sires like A.P. Indy do, nor do they get the same quality of mares that went to the courts of Storm Cat or Seeking the Gold. (I left out Barbaro out of the reckoning because Dynaformer was already a very well-regarded sire by the time he showed his ability, but even now Dynaformer doesn't get the cream de la creme of the mares out there, though his books are certainly much better than they once were.)

Granted, Giant's Causeway and Kingmambo are both right up there nowadays, but they both had appeal with Euro buyers from the start, which helped their chances. I don't think Sunday Silence would have had that advantage.

Personally, I would have loved to see Sunday Silence stay here and make a top stallion -- he was such a game horse, and very talented. But he would have faced a much more uphill battle here under conditions that might or might not have suited his progeny, whereas in Japan he got the royal treatment from the get-go. We can only speculate on what might have been.

By the way, the person who commented about the success of Buckpasser-line horses in South America was right on -- Egg Toss, Logical, Settlement Day, and Chairman Walker all did well down there. And I don't think it's coincidence that Spend a Buck's one US-bred G1 winner was from an Argentine-bred mare.