Ghostzapper down to 30k LF

[oliverstoned]

He started at $200,000. When Ghostzapper was asked to comment on the fee reduction he replied "aw I never liked dem high class dames anyway".

[Tappiano]

I hope someday I can pickup one of his daughters inexpensively because I think he'll be a good broodmare sire.

[llbean]

Very funny, oliverstoned.

[JCBloodstock]

And with the results he's had on those high class mares he need's to be cut in half about 3 more times when it comes to stud fee

[LB]

And with the results he's had on those high class mares he need's to be cut in half about 3 more times when it comes to stud fee

I would never be so quick to write off a horse based solely on one year of 2 year old racing. Give the Ghostzappers a chance to run at 3 and 4. I wouldn't be surprised if his results turn around.

[JCBloodstock]

Well I'm not you,and for my clients sake that's a good thing.

I knew he was overated when he went to stud and he's still in the destruction mode of Adena Springs.

75 foals,22 starters,8 winners and then you have his 1/2 Brother City Zip sitting 5th on the Juvenile Sire List with 107 foals,56 starters,36 winners,3 stakes winners and 6 stakes horses.

And now I s'pose I'm going to hear that City Zip bred a better bunch of mares at 12.5 to 15k than Ghostzapper at $200,000;I will say City Zip is definitely with better connections in the stud barn and that would probably be the best thing that could happen to Ghostzapper at this point and time is if he moved to a farm that knows how to make a stallion.

For $30,000 at what he did this year I could not advise one client to breed to him for that.But then again,off of what he has done so far I wouldn't advise one client to breed to him at $7,500 either.

[ASB]

LB never stated he should be recommended to people to breed to, just that it's much too early to call him an abject failure off one juvenile crop.

There's a huge difference between the two.

[LB]

LB never stated he should be recommended to people to breed to, just that it's much too early to call him an abject failure off one juvenile crop.

There's a huge difference between the two.

Thanks ASB. You beat me to it.

I really dislike the notion of racehorses and racehorse sires as easily disposable commodities. The thinking seems to be: either perform for me TODAY in the manner in which I expect and want, or you'll be tossed out with the trash.

Ghosptzapper himself only raced twice as a 2yo and did his best running at 4. To me, it seems a little silly to expect him to produce early, precocious, runners and then to give up on him when he doesn't. Sure his stud fee was too high when he retired--that's the Adena model. But I have a hard time holding a grudge against the horse himself for that.

[BargainBlueblood]

Ghostzapper was overpriced at $200K, but I don't think he should be completely dismissed as a failure, especially when as noted above, he was not an early success himself. In that vein, don't forget most of the TB world was writing off Sky Mesa when his first crop of 2-year-olds started slow, and then, suddenly, he was the hottest thing in Kentucky! Also, I'd say Adena did well in "making" El Prado, Macho Uno, and Awesome Again into formidable stallions, so they can't just be dismissed with the wave of a hand.

[FOS]

hi BargainBlueblood

... Also, I'd say Adena did well in "making" El Prado, Macho Uno, and Awesome Again into formidable stallions ...

It's important to note that El Prado's stud career began at Brereton Jones' Airdrie Stud (Lex), NOT at Adena?

Fact is...El Prado's first two years at stud (at Airdrie Lex) resulted in his two lifetime-best percentages of stakes winners from named foals (%/named foals); first crop (20%/41); second crop(14%/50).

If you believe in giving credit where due, isn't it a MUST to credit Airdrie Stud a whole lot when it comes to "making El Prado" (your words)?

Respectfully

[BargainBlueblood]

I didn't say Adena "single-handedly made" El Prado. And I even put the term "making" in quotes, since no stallion's success and/or failure is fully and completely dependent on where they stand. But I absolutely stand by El Prado, Macho Uno, and Awesome Again as examples that refute the earlier implication that Adena is a no-win place for a young and/or unproven stallions. They certainly have struggled with others (Sligo Bay and Red Bullet spring to mind immediately) but they've also admirably supported horses with outcross/atypical pedigrees for the Bluegrass state (note they've heavily supported Holy Bull throughout his career...and they're added Tiago and Einstein to their roster, too).

[FOS]

hi BargainBlueblood

I didn't say Adena "single-handedly made" El Prado. ...

Thanks for the response...
...and no you didn't say that...but (whether intended or not) that seemed (to me anyway) to be the implication.

Help me better understand your thought process . Years from now, am I to expect you'll credit Darley in making Medaglia D'Oro

Back to El Prado...reality is you gave no credit whatsoever (and still haven't)...not even honorable mention...to the FACT that Airdrie Stud is where El Prado began his career at stud, and the results were arguably spectacular.

I'd go all in with the chips that those spectacular results (at Airdrie) were likely at the core of El Prado's move to Adena.

Hey...all power to Team Adena, they went full bore with El Prado-the-sire after he proved (as a result of his years at Airdrie) what he could do as a sire.

To an extent...couldn't the same be said of (for example) Three Chimneys and Dynaformer. All power to 3C, they went full bore with Dynaformer-the-sire after he proved (as a result of his years in a less fancy neighborhood) what he could do as a sire. By your definition...to what extent (if any) is 3C to be credited in making Dynaformer?

Best to ya.

Respectfully

[karenkarenn]

Stately victor anyone...

[madelyn]

Stately victor anyone...

Where did that come from and what does it have to do with this thread?

Regarding Ghostzapper, I feel the same way about him as I did about Smarty Jones, FuPeg, well all those first year horses at six figure prices - that the initial introductory stud fee was at least ten times too high. I interpret those kind of first year fees as Proof Positive that the horse's connections have absolutely No Faith in Him Whatsoever. They seem to need to collect the entire investment back before the horse has a chance to flop, which they must believe he will do. They must know somehow that at some point they will have to ship him elsewhere, or stand him for a case of beer. Note that there are quite a few farms involved in launching these "ripoff" horses at gouge-those-mare-owners prices.

However, if mare owners continue to rush to these new horses and part with such massive sums, the practice will continue. History tells us that the fees have something like an 80% probability of falling to the floor in a couple of years, so if you love the horse that much just wait awhile.

I bred a mare to Street Cry on his bubble year at $30K (which I believe is a MUCH more realistic price for an unproven horse) and he is NOW $150K - to my mind, that is a more honest business model.

[LB]

Stately victor anyone...

Where did that come from and what does it have to do with this thread?

Grade 1 winner Stately Victor is by Ghostzapper. As is Dynazaper, winner of the Edgewood S. yesterday at Churchill Downs.