SHAM_Any tail-male-line active sire from him?

[Fireslam]

I remember Sham as being a popular stallion when he was at Spendthrift, and a pretty good sire. Some of his daughters produced on, but very few of his sons did. I don't think breeders ignored him at all.

[erhrdt3]

Poor Sham, such a pretty boy he was, he was just born in the wrong year!

WHO would want to chase The Greatest, (well, other than Ruffian) around the track?

I really wonder what Sham would have done had Secretariat not been there?

[Shammy Davis]

When you think about it, on the TC trail, he really was never able to run his own race, save the KD. He was constantly forced to pressure SECRETARIAT in both the Preakness and Belmont.

Interesting pedigree too.

It has been sometime since I've seen a SHAM mare in a sales catalog. When I do find SHAM, it is contained in only one or two pedigrees. With PRINCEQUILLO as his BMS, I suspect, though I've got nothing to base it on, that he was more likely to excell on the dam side.

Although a previous post indicated interest early on with his breeding, the lack of ancestry is certainly evident in the sales catalog.

I can't help but compare this to the disappearance of SPY SONG, GALLANT MAN, and ROUND TABLE as a tail male. All these sires had ample opportunities to succeed and didn't from the male side. Certainly nothing close to BR or ND.

[erhrdt3]

Thanks Shammy for the info.

I remember hearing the announcers saying if Secretariat had not been born the same year, Sham would have become a pretty darn famous horse in his own rights. Poor fella, didn't he hurt himself in the Belmont trying to keep up with Secretariat? I think they had to pull him up.

I was reading an article somewhere on the internet about how the line of Reviewer, the sire of Ruffian, had basically died out, without any regrets either, because his line was not a very hardy one. He had broken down three times and came back to race.

Makes you wonder, if Ruffian had a more sound factor in her pedigree what would have happened. If you want to see some cool photos of Reviewer when he was young, go to ebay and just type in Reviewer. She got her gorgeous looks from him.

have a great night...

[deaky]

Speaking of Sham as a sire of sires... His sireline has never been something you could consider "strong sires line", has it?

From Sham, Endeavour... back to Colombo and Manna, there's no really strong sire. At least from my superficial knowledge, I've never been interested in this sireline very much...
Combined with Princequillo and Sickle, who are in similar position... I mean, with them more in position of "dam sires"...

His stud career is not much surprising from that point of view...

Two more stallions who had 21st cent foals, but... well, not much serious:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/then+again
http://www.pedigreequery.com/shambo

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Just as curiosity for everybody interested in Sham's progeny:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/lykeion

Lykeion was champion 2yo and Derby winner, and I think it was considered to retire him to stud, but... well, I'm not sure about the circumstances.
His sire, Long Meadows, was - at least from photos I've seen - just a copy of Sham - body, colour, everything Being son of Sham, you could imagine what was his stud career like... Some of his daughters went on to become good producers, according to their foals I've seen... some talented, nice-bodied hurdlers and sort of "right-minded", stoic horses - sounds strange, but that was always my impression.
One worth naming:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/efezja
Former top 3yo filly and Oaks runner, now also talented steeplechaser and personally I think also future great producer. Sha's got that in her

As anywhere else in the world, Sham's blood is not common. But it's something you can breed on... and it's something that counts.

[Patuxet]

Sham's female family was exceptionally strong. His granddam, the bluehen mare The Squaw, was a half sister to Avenger, winner of the Grand Prix de Paris.

Sham's dam, Spinaway winner Sequoia, was a full sister to two winners of the CCA Oaks. These in turn produced the dams of HOY Ack Ack, CH 3YO Tom Rolfe and Chieftain.

On at least 15 occasions Sham was bred to mares by one of those three but to no great effect. He did have luck when bred to mares by Our Native which had run third to him and Secretariat in the KY Derby and Preakness.

[Shammy Davis]

Oh, to think what might have been had he been a 1969 or 1971 foal.

[erins isle]

Just by coincidence I saw that Lafontaine is a son of Sham. This stallion is the sire of Papillon, the winner of the English Grand National in 2000.

[Patuxet]

Thanks, EI, for that information. I was surprised to see that the Grand National is only a Gr. 3 race while the Irish version is a Gr. 1.

[Jorge]

For some time I have been curious on the influence of stallions whose broodmare sire was Princequillo. Mighty names like Secretariat and Sham, one can also add the less heralded Belmont Stakes winner, High Echelon. I know there are many others whose broodmare sire was Princequillo, but Sham in particular was underestimated in several areas.

There are several names, some mighty and famous, others equally mighty but not so famous, that deserve better legacy. Names like Buckpasser (famous), Dr. Fager (famous), Damascus (famous), Figonero, Quack, Riva Ridge, Kauai King, Flying Paster, Criminal Type, Lure, and Sham that its always good to witness their legacy.

In addition to Noor and Quack (already mentioned in the "quote") lets not forget Big Spruce and Vigors (another tough and solid teletimer achiever).

Apropos Quack, note that he is the broodmare sire of Santa Anita Handicap winner Misremembered:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/misremembered

Note that albeit broodmare sire Quack is not a hit-parade name anymore Misremembered clicked a decent good time for the distance of 10 furlongs. not unusual for for a granson of the mighty Quack.

[Jorge]

Foxtrail was standing in Ontario.

Thanks "Dave C".
Hey, not only a descendant from SHAM, but also found a descendant from multiple world record holder sprinter ZIP POCKET.

Take a look at this horse: http://www.pedigreequery.com/biography6

[ElPrado]

Sham was not injured in the Belmont. He tired and Pincay allowed him to ease. Sham was injured in a work in late July or early August 1973. I believe he bowed, although he may have injured a sesamoid. I'm not clear on exactly what the injury was. It's been a long time.

[Shammy Davis]

SHAM's head slammed into the gate at the start of the Kentucky Derby and he ran the race w/ two broken incisors. He was also bleeding from one of his nostrils. SHAM was eased in the BELMONT, but having followed his career all my life, I have found no records or information showing he had any other injuries. He retired sound.

[Bettina]

Hallo,
in Germany, Big Spruce is the sire of Granddam of the successful Stallion Silvano and his HB Sabiango.

Regards, Bettina

[Shammy Davis]

El Prado posted:

Sham was not injured in the Belmont. He tired and Pincay allowed him to ease. Sham was injured in a work in late July or early August 1973. I believe he bowed, although he may have injured a sesamoid. I'm not clear on exactly what the injury was. It's been a long time.

I posted:

. . . SHAM was eased in the BELMONT, but having followed his career all my life, I have found no records or information showing he had any other injuries. He retired sound.

El Prado is right, and I'm wrong. I checked this out further and it appears that SHAM had a simple fracture of his right forearm that was repaired w/three pins. He recuperated at Belmont and then was sent to Spendthrift to stand at stud.

To El Prado and anyone else that I confused I apologize.