Indian Charlie

[SilverGhost]

Anyone else out there noticing Indian Charlie? Seems like every time I read through the stakes results, he has a new graded stakes horse.

[freddymo]

Fast horse off to a fast start..

[dray33]

always underestimated, and throws off runners.

[Sysonby]

How have the soundness issues been with Indian Charlie? He's by a stallion who is not renowned for "hickory".

[henthorn]

Indian Charlie is off to a great start, with not only highest quality performers, but lots of AEI 2.00 to 3.99 runners as well. He's still mostly under the radar screen. My problem is just trying to figure what types of mares to send to him, as his pedigree is unusual.

[kimberley mine]

Indian Charlie is off to a great start, with not only highest quality performers, but lots of AEI 2.00 to 3.99 runners as well. He's still mostly under the radar screen. My problem is just trying to figure what types of mares to send to him, as his pedigree is unusual.

Skimming through the sires in both male and female line (will look at the dams later), the following seemed to work well:

1. Nearctic: Vice Regal, Vice Regent, Regal Classic (VR + Double Jay)
Icecapade (Siberian Express + Icecapade = GSW Siberian Summer)
Explodent

2. Creme dela Creme and Diplomat Way both did well with Double Jay.

3. Diplomat Way has done well with Skip Trial (Damascus, Double Jay).

4. In Excess has done well with Apalachee mares and mares with Never Bend.

[petersd]

Actually, I think In Excess, the sire of Indian Charlie, has gotten a bad rap for unsoundness.
If you look at his race record, In Excess only ran twice at two, and that was in England. After four starts at three over the pond, he shipped here, where he made six additional starts, becoming a rather good turf runner.
It wasn't until he was four, when he became one of the best handicap horses in the country. All told, 25 starts from 2 to 5.
The problem I've seen is that In Excess offspring tend to have boatloads of speed - even though they tend to mimic his heavy body type. In sprint-crazy California, there's big money on the line for 2 year olds, so breeders who've thrown down $25K for a season, or yearling buyers who paid even more, are trying to get their money back as quickly as possible.
I think if people waited for the legs to catch up with the body, you might see more In Excess runners lasting longer. Unfortunately, given the money involved, I don't see that happening.

[kimberley mine]

I think if people waited for the legs to catch up with the body, you might see more In Excess runners lasting longer. Unfortunately, given the money involved, I don't see that happening.

I think the only person to have waited so far was Shiek Mohammed, with Musical Chimes.

[kimberley mine]

Looking at Indian Charlie himself, of at least 15 runners with $100k or more in earnings:

8 linebreed to Nashua through Gold Digger or another daughter

5 linebreed to Northern Dancer through various sons

3 linebreed to Almahmoud via Halo (with our w/o ND)

Among others:

*Stakes-winning gelding from an Apalachee mare
*Conquistador Cielo seems to be a hot cross, with 3 of his top earners out of 2 different CC mares
*He has a couple more nice runners from Silver Hawk daughters or granddaughters--cross to Nashua through a daughter
*Tom Fool daughter strains occur frequently

[Sysonby]

FWIW, I think In Excess comes by his reputation honestly. Many of them that I've seen have been terribly offset and you would have to look hard to find the ones that have started more than 10 times. What they are are hellaciously fast but their wheels don't hold up. But the five starts you get are generally good ones and I can't deny the quality of many of his runners..

As for Musical Chimes, she has raced on turf which traditionally helps horses with front end problems. Not that I am specifically aware of any she had, but if she was typical In Excess, she probably didn't have the prettiest front end.