Is It True and a few others
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parsixfarms
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- Posts: 117
- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:04 pm
- Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Is It True and a few others
Anyone have any feelings on the relocation of Is It True from Florida (where he bred only 42 mares last year) to Kentucky for 2006? I have a mare (by Confide) for whom he makes a pretty good match on paper and was wondering about his situation and, if possible, conformation, etc. In that regard, if anyone has any thoughts about the following stallions that are on our "short list," they'd be greatly appreciated: Cape Town, Cape Canaveral, Gilded Time, Petionville, Storm Boot, Stormin Fever and Victory Gallop. We're breeding to race. Thanks, in advance, for your thoughts.
hi parsixfarms
You wrote "I have a mare (by Confide) for whom (Is It True) makes a pretty good match on paper and was wondering about his situation and, if possible, conformation, etc."
You also indicate that you intend to breed to race...and supplied your "short list" of stallions to select from...Is It True, Cape Town, Cape Canaveral, Gilded Time, Petionville, Storm Boot, Stormin Fever and Victory Gallop. At least to some extent (and varying degrees) a case can probably be made for each of them.
I offer the following for your consideration...
...for starters...when it comes to the prospects of breeding your mare (or any mare for that matter) to Is It True (or any stallion for that matter)...certainly a hypothetical "match on paper" (your words) can be interesting and possibly of value. That said...in the case of Is It True, I suggest he's a hulk of a horse with a rough front end (probably an understatement) including a VERY BAD set of knees. He often sires that kind and (from my perspective) there's very little dream connected to him...although arguably his top one (Yes It's True) was and is quite special. I recommend BEWARE of Is It True...and suggest that it might be wise to minimize the weight you might place on the "match on paper" and maximize the physical match up. I find Is It True extremely difficult to recommend...and suggest that you scrutinize him (and all others) honestly and critically.
Cape Town...he's not bad, and if not bad is enough for you and if you can get past his $15k stud fee, you might consider him. He proved he could get a good one in Bird Town and he's young enough to maybe expect that the best is yet to come.
Cape Canaveral...for starters he's bad-through-the-knees, and is not very scopy (probably an understatement), but he is a beautifully-bred young stallion. As a sire, I don't expect him to get much more than early and/or somewhat cheap sprinter-types. If CC is bred to the kind of mare that brings a lot more to the table than he offers...and the mare dominates...maybe he might come up with a better kind of horse. I suggest that Cape Canaveral is NOT worthy of your serious consideration...and it might be wise to walk away and don't look back.
Gilded Time...maybe he's worthy of some consideration (yawn) at $12,500...but I recommend consider ALL of your options before going his way (yawn again).
Petionville...obviously you like a couple of sons of Seeking the Gold (Cape Town above and now Petionville). Petionville is possibly okay...but I suggest his double-dose of Buckpasser is something to carefully consider when selecting a mare for him. With Buckpasser...knees can be problematic...with a double-dose of Buckpasser (as in the case of Petionville)...who knows? Arguably Petionville's best might be yet to come...and possibly your mare might produce a good one, especially if she's got some Northern Dancer and/or Seattle Slew to breed back into Petionville's Mr Prospector connection and his double-dose of Buckpasser.
Storm Boot...he's NEVER sired a G1 winner (and for what it's worth, his tenth foal crop will race in 2006). Regardless...he has proven that he can get a very good racehorse...and that he's got it in him to get some real speed. I suggest that he might be a bit high at $15,000 (you might agree that he seems to be quiet right now) and has yet to get a classic colt or filly. I expect that if you're planning on going to the races you might like having the dream of a classic-horse to hang onto...and arguably there's still a question as to Storm Boot's ability to deliver that. If Storm Boot is your choice...I strongly recommend selecting a mare for him that will inject some size and scope...a mare that you are confident will produce a sound-enough front end.
Stormin Fever...I suggest that he's still (at the very least) somewhat interesting...although I seem to hear the word disappointing connected to him quite often. He might still be worthy of consideration for a price...but (as far as I'm concerned) NOT for $15,000 (right now anyway). If you like a Storm Cat out of a Seattle Slew...I strongly recommend that you compare Stormin Fever with Stormy Atlantic at $20k. Stormy Atlantic's arguably had very good success from limited opportunity (as compared to the quality and quantity of mares initially offered to Stormin Fever)...and Stormy Atlantic's first Kentucky crop (which is apparently HUGE and reputed to be of better quality than he had ever previously received) races in 2006.
Victory Gallop...if you've got the speed to breed to him...he could be worthy (based on his $10,000 advertised stud fee for 2006) of being included on your yet-to-be shortened...short list. Arguably VG has limited sales appeal...but he just might fill your (breed-to-race) bill...especially if you've got the right mare for him.
Respectfully
You wrote "I have a mare (by Confide) for whom (Is It True) makes a pretty good match on paper and was wondering about his situation and, if possible, conformation, etc."
You also indicate that you intend to breed to race...and supplied your "short list" of stallions to select from...Is It True, Cape Town, Cape Canaveral, Gilded Time, Petionville, Storm Boot, Stormin Fever and Victory Gallop. At least to some extent (and varying degrees) a case can probably be made for each of them.
I offer the following for your consideration...
...for starters...when it comes to the prospects of breeding your mare (or any mare for that matter) to Is It True (or any stallion for that matter)...certainly a hypothetical "match on paper" (your words) can be interesting and possibly of value. That said...in the case of Is It True, I suggest he's a hulk of a horse with a rough front end (probably an understatement) including a VERY BAD set of knees. He often sires that kind and (from my perspective) there's very little dream connected to him...although arguably his top one (Yes It's True) was and is quite special. I recommend BEWARE of Is It True...and suggest that it might be wise to minimize the weight you might place on the "match on paper" and maximize the physical match up. I find Is It True extremely difficult to recommend...and suggest that you scrutinize him (and all others) honestly and critically.
Cape Town...he's not bad, and if not bad is enough for you and if you can get past his $15k stud fee, you might consider him. He proved he could get a good one in Bird Town and he's young enough to maybe expect that the best is yet to come.
Cape Canaveral...for starters he's bad-through-the-knees, and is not very scopy (probably an understatement), but he is a beautifully-bred young stallion. As a sire, I don't expect him to get much more than early and/or somewhat cheap sprinter-types. If CC is bred to the kind of mare that brings a lot more to the table than he offers...and the mare dominates...maybe he might come up with a better kind of horse. I suggest that Cape Canaveral is NOT worthy of your serious consideration...and it might be wise to walk away and don't look back.
Gilded Time...maybe he's worthy of some consideration (yawn) at $12,500...but I recommend consider ALL of your options before going his way (yawn again).
Petionville...obviously you like a couple of sons of Seeking the Gold (Cape Town above and now Petionville). Petionville is possibly okay...but I suggest his double-dose of Buckpasser is something to carefully consider when selecting a mare for him. With Buckpasser...knees can be problematic...with a double-dose of Buckpasser (as in the case of Petionville)...who knows? Arguably Petionville's best might be yet to come...and possibly your mare might produce a good one, especially if she's got some Northern Dancer and/or Seattle Slew to breed back into Petionville's Mr Prospector connection and his double-dose of Buckpasser.
Storm Boot...he's NEVER sired a G1 winner (and for what it's worth, his tenth foal crop will race in 2006). Regardless...he has proven that he can get a very good racehorse...and that he's got it in him to get some real speed. I suggest that he might be a bit high at $15,000 (you might agree that he seems to be quiet right now) and has yet to get a classic colt or filly. I expect that if you're planning on going to the races you might like having the dream of a classic-horse to hang onto...and arguably there's still a question as to Storm Boot's ability to deliver that. If Storm Boot is your choice...I strongly recommend selecting a mare for him that will inject some size and scope...a mare that you are confident will produce a sound-enough front end.
Stormin Fever...I suggest that he's still (at the very least) somewhat interesting...although I seem to hear the word disappointing connected to him quite often. He might still be worthy of consideration for a price...but (as far as I'm concerned) NOT for $15,000 (right now anyway). If you like a Storm Cat out of a Seattle Slew...I strongly recommend that you compare Stormin Fever with Stormy Atlantic at $20k. Stormy Atlantic's arguably had very good success from limited opportunity (as compared to the quality and quantity of mares initially offered to Stormin Fever)...and Stormy Atlantic's first Kentucky crop (which is apparently HUGE and reputed to be of better quality than he had ever previously received) races in 2006.
Victory Gallop...if you've got the speed to breed to him...he could be worthy (based on his $10,000 advertised stud fee for 2006) of being included on your yet-to-be shortened...short list. Arguably VG has limited sales appeal...but he just might fill your (breed-to-race) bill...especially if you've got the right mare for him.
Respectfully
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parsixfarms
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- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:04 pm
- Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
The mare's name is Wateree. She's a good-sized, clean-legged mare with good bone who earned about $90,000. If that helps anyone come up with other alternatives, they'd be much appreciated.
FOS, thanks for your input. Since our mare was primarily a 7F horse, and out of a sprint-oriented line, our dream is not necessarily to get a "classic horse." As New Yorkers simply hoping to take advantage of the state's lucrative breeding program, our goal is to get a foal that is likely to make the races and hopefully get through his/her NY-bred maiden and allowance conditions (which, with expected VLT $$ beginning in 2007, would mean over $125K in on-track earnings and even more in breeders' awards). While some of the stallions I listed above are not real hot/sexy, they seem to offer more value than stallions based in New York (we'd consider Good and Tough and Freud here) and have seemed to cross well with the Clever Trick/Icecapade line.
FOS, thanks for your input. Since our mare was primarily a 7F horse, and out of a sprint-oriented line, our dream is not necessarily to get a "classic horse." As New Yorkers simply hoping to take advantage of the state's lucrative breeding program, our goal is to get a foal that is likely to make the races and hopefully get through his/her NY-bred maiden and allowance conditions (which, with expected VLT $$ beginning in 2007, would mean over $125K in on-track earnings and even more in breeders' awards). While some of the stallions I listed above are not real hot/sexy, they seem to offer more value than stallions based in New York (we'd consider Good and Tough and Freud here) and have seemed to cross well with the Clever Trick/Icecapade line.
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Morningside
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- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:13 pm
- Location: New York, NY
out of the bunch, i like gilded time, petionville, storm boot, and victory gallop. i think victory gallop probably offers you the best value out of all of those, and he'll add a bit of stamina (he's a solid solid sire, 7% SW in his first 2 crops, 24K median earnings, which is high considering half his foals are not done with their racing careers yet).
and i completely agree with FOS's comments on is it true, i think he's terrible.
and i completely agree with FOS's comments on is it true, i think he's terrible.
Re: Is It True and a few others
parsixfarms wrote:Anyone have any feelings on the relocation of Is It True from Florida (where he bred only 42 mares last year) to Kentucky for 2006? I have a mare (by Confide) for whom he makes a pretty good match on paper and was wondering about his situation and, if possible, conformation, etc. In that regard, if anyone has any thoughts about the following stallions that are on our "short list," they'd be greatly appreciated: Cape Town, Cape Canaveral, Gilded Time, Petionville, Storm Boot, Stormin Fever and Victory Gallop. We're breeding to race. Thanks, in advance, for your thoughts.
I've always likeD Petionville but he's now to high at $15,000(though I'm guessing you can get to him for $10,000... MAYBE EVEN LESS. Remember, just like a sticker price on the auto lot "everythings negotiable" with the exception of the truly hot/now sires which Petionville no longer is. Another Seeking the Gold son I would STRONGLY consider is Mutakddim. He sired Lady Tak a GI winner at Saratoga and many other nice/useful horses. At $12,500 he is reasonable... though $8,000 sounds better.
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Morningside
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- Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 7:13 pm
- Location: New York, NY
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parsixfarms
- Maiden Special Weight
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- Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:04 pm
- Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
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bcassidy
- Restricted Stakes Winner
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- Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 5:36 pm
- Location: Springfield twshp, NJ
parsixfarms-In NY I really like Lycius and Judge TC as two value stallions. If you are interested in a very interesting opportunity, you can breed your mare to a NJ stallion (if you find one you like) and get not only a registered NY bred but also a NJ bred eligible foal. NJ has restricted races and equally substantial purses for those races. One big difference is the size of the foal crop. I believe NJ is currently foaling only about 300 foals per year so the numbers start to work very good for you if you can get a foal that is fairly decent. I am taking advantage of the same situation by getting foals that are NY and NJ bred eligible. I stand two stallions at my farm and can help you finding other stallions in NJ if you might be interested. I think it would be an excellent option for you if you find a NJ stallion you like. You can go to the NJ thoroughbred website for more information on the state bred program and I would also be glad to help you out if you can't get good information on our programs. BTW-I stand Rockin on Ready--a nice son of Smoke Glacken and Honor Defend--a beautiful son of Woodman. Please let me know if I can help you with anything and good luck with what ever you decide.
best regards Brendan