Can location create failure?

Discussion and analysis of thoroughbred stallions.

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vineyridge
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Postby vineyridge » Wed Oct 17, 2007 11:37 am

Do In Reality line mares do well over jumps?


According to the Hannoverian people, jumping ability is highly heritable compared to other traits. It has a numerical value of 40 compared to other traits that have numerical values of less than 20. (If you're interested in the numbers, you can go to the American Hanoverian Society website and read their article about the heritability of various traits.)

The Man O'War line has a very long history of producing great jumps racers. From Battleship, who was the first American owned and trained horse to win the Aintree Grand National, up through Relic whose lines are still found in in France even today for jump racing. It all seems to go back to Rock Sand in the distant past, and Rock Sand was certainly used in multiple close crosses in the Man O'War family and connections. War Relic is the primary source of the jumping line today, and he's 3x3 in In Reality.

A Valid Expectations mare would be a good choice, since you really want French lines for stamina and jump. Once again, going back into the far, far past, the French Dollar line and the Le Sancy lines and Roi Herode all produced exceptional jumping horses, both for racing and for show. Since Running Stag has already got the Tourbillon line on the bottom, you could easily linebreed to reinforce "the jump". His German lines bring in the other great source of "the jump", which is Hampton/Bay Ronald.

Of course, the other really good choice for jump racing would be a Northern Baby mare. His offspring have been successful at jumps racing both here and in Europe. [/quote]
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griff
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Postby griff » Wed Oct 17, 2007 12:15 pm

There's a stallion in WV named Limit Out that has a $32k average starter number as of the end of September.. When I pulled up the KY stallions O I find most of them are presentlyly in that same range and they have far superior mares tahn limit Out..

last year I think ke finished the year with a $48k average earnings per starter and I think that was also in the top 30% of the KY stallions and again he is doing this woith very average, non KY, mares.

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vineyridge
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Postby vineyridge » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:07 pm

Limit Out is nicely bred, with a very good damline. It's no wonder he's successful. He's linebred top and bottom on Tom Fool and Native Dancer/Raise a Native. If the Princequillo double makes up for RAN weaknesses, it looks as if the breeder knew what he/she was doing.

Mrs. Richard DuPont was a true horsewoman/breeder. She bred and raced Kelso, and foxhunted him after he retired from racing.
Last edited by vineyridge on Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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geowarrior
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Postby geowarrior » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:33 pm

Jellac, which courses in Texas have turf? When I've been wondering about a new career for my OTTB Gear It Up, I've been reminded that once he grows into himself and his legs get strong he could be returned to racing (not really likely, but I'm not one to ignore advice and suggestions), but I've always thought he needs the turf, and he is a Texas bred. I know or I think I know that there is a turf course at Sam Houston, but wasn't aware of any others.

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Postby madelyn » Wed Oct 17, 2007 1:58 pm

vineyridge wrote:
Do In Reality line mares do well over jumps?


According to the Hannoverian people, jumping ability is highly heritable compared to other traits. It has a numerical value of 40 compared to other traits that have numerical values of less than 20. (If you're interested in the numbers, you can go to the American Hanoverian Society website and read their article about the heritability of various traits.)

The Man O'War line has a very long history of producing great jumps racers. From Battleship, who was the first American owned and trained horse to win the Aintree Grand National, up through Relic whose lines are still found in in France even today for jump racing. It all seems to go back to Rock Sand in the distant past, and Rock Sand was certainly used in multiple close crosses in the Man O'War family and connections. War Relic is the primary source of the jumping line today, and he's 3x3 in In Reality.

A Valid Expectations mare would be a good choice, since you really want French lines for stamina and jump. Once again, going back into the far, far past, the French Dollar line and the Le Sancy lines and Roi Herode all produced exceptional jumping horses, both for racing and for show. Since Running Stag has already got the Tourbillon line on the bottom, you could easily linebreed to reinforce "the jump". His German lines bring in the other great source of "the jump", which is Hampton/Bay Ronald.

Of course, the other really good choice for jump racing would be a Northern Baby mare. His offspring have been successful at jumps racing both here and in Europe.
[/quote]

My stallion would probably be a great sporthorse sire. His 2nd dam produced Yaw with Seattle Slew who was a phenomenal 'chaser.
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vineyridge
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Postby vineyridge » Wed Oct 17, 2007 2:33 pm

You can look at La Vire's pedigree and see a long line of successful jumpers and jump racers going back many generations.

Problem with sport horse stallions is that mare owners don't want to pay much over a grand in the way of a stud fee and many of the will NOT do live cover.
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Postby casallc » Thu Oct 18, 2007 6:40 am

geowarrior wrote:Jellac, which courses in Texas have turf? When I've been wondering about a new career for my OTTB Gear It Up, I've been reminded that once he grows into himself and his legs get strong he could be returned to racing (not really likely, but I'm not one to ignore advice and suggestions), but I've always thought he needs the turf, and he is a Texas bred. I know or I think I know that there is a turf course at Sam Houston, but wasn't aware of any others.


Sam Houston, Retama and Lone Star all have turf courses.

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Postby Roguelet » Thu Oct 18, 2007 7:26 am

vineyridge wrote:War Relic is the primary source of the jumping line today, and he's 3x3 in In Reality.


Three of the horses we bred, all out of the same mare (and almost a fourth as well) were scooped up by the Hunter/Jumper market. The H/J folks just LOVED their look, movement, etc. These full brothers are all 3X3 In Reality. The 4th is in training now; he's pointed toward the Indiana Downs Spring meet. Hopefully he won't jump the rail. :lol:
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vineyridge
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Postby vineyridge » Thu Oct 18, 2007 9:57 am

Not surprised that h/j folks would find 3 x3 In Reality attractive.

If I had the right mare, I'd love to breed to Rock Point (Believe It), who has produced some jump racers, eventers, and h/j on line and performing offspring. He has about nine lines to Man O'War in his first six generations and was 3rd in the Belmont. He's only 22 and sub-fertile, so I need to get moving.
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