FAVORITE NEW STALLION

[bdw0617]

2. sky mesa's female family isn't in the same country as corinthians. it's good but it's not close.

ARE YOU NUTS????? Better than Busanda? When God created female tails, he created Busanda! Numbskull Phipps culled her daughters after one generation, and since then, look at all the sires that carry her on the bottom!

no one is questioning the baby making prawless of busanda, however IMHO corinthian's family has done more in the last 20 years than Sky Mesa's.

[Rokeby Forever]

no one is questioning the baby making prawless of busanda, however IMHO corinthian's family has done more in the last 20 years than Sky Mesa's.

Really? Excluding Outstandingly, how do the names Bernstein, Caress, Della Francesca, and Emmaus (dam of Wiseman's Ferry) grab you? I haven't even warmed up yet!

[Betsy]

I adore Corinthian and think he's a top, top sire prospect, but.......Sky Mesa (to my utter shock, really) has been a disaster. Does that worry you about Corinthian? Sky Mesa was Pulpit's first top son to go to stud......... I do like Purge, but of course he doesn't have runners yet.

Corinthian was a stakes horse for two seasons and he comes from a beautiful Claiborne family. I wouldn't dismiss him because of other Pulpit sons - did anyone write off AP Indy because of Houston or Slew O'Gold?

I can't believe that everyone has given up on Sky Mesa. His first crop to race are still two year olds. Same with Mineshaft....if a sire doesn't punch out a bunch of early winners, why is it written off as a "disaster" so quickly? Officer had a ton of early winners in his first crop and he has one Grade III winner to show for it. Yonaguska had a ton of early winners from his first crop - what were any of them worth? Sky Mesa descends from my FAVORITE female tail (Busanda) - how can you write him so fast? He was overhyped and probably stood for too much in his first year - that's not his fault. He's not my favorite sire type (early breakdown and broke down again at three), but give him a chance - geesh!

Well, I agree, but with Mineshaft (who I adore), he has sired some promising babies that have come on lately......Sky Mesa hasn't really had any. However, I still hold out hope. Pulpit was a brilliant horse who's turned into a very good sire - I hope Sky Mesa's offspring are just really late developers. Officer is just another sire of precocious babies who aren't that classy.....same with Yonaguska.

[bdw0617]

no one is questioning the baby making prawless of busanda, however IMHO corinthian's family has done more in the last 20 years than Sky Mesa's.

Really? Excluding Outstandingly, how do the names Bernstein, Caress, Della Francesca, and Emmaus (dam of Wiseman's Ferry) grab you? I haven't even warmed up yet!

damnit roke, lol, I was hopping to take the easy way out.

okay here you go. tale of the tape:


Sky mesa: tail female to LA TROIENNE, family recently has produced horses like.. i'll make this short and keep it to successful stallions..

...

that's it. you like horses like buckpasser and polish navy, but they dont' come from Sky Mesa's side of the family. sky mesa's side of the family is better known for producing mares, like outstandingly, caress and country cat. I guess you could call bernstein a successful sire, and we don't know about della francesca yet.


corinthian is tail female to special who is a blue hen in her own right. this family has produced the successful sires sadlers wells, Neuryev and other lesser successful sires.


that's one way of putting it but that's not why I love corinthian and why I never was that high on sky mesa. Caress has been popping babies since 96 and in 12 years has 1 stakes winner.. sky mesa. some stakes PLACEd but only 1 stakes WINNEr. Her fancy bred kids by seeking the gold, ap indy, sunday silence and others have for the most part, not been able to run a lick. literarly.


Multiply on the other hand, offspring win races at about a 36 percent clip. htat is a handicapping angle fr you right there . corinthian's full sister is a r unner. a stakes runner.


so with that said, I never wasn't that high on sky mesa and I love corinthian. I would like to see some of sisters with dam records but hey, i'll take what I can get. at least i know corinthian wasn't a one hit wonder from his dam.

[bdw0617]

I adore Corinthian and think he's a top, top sire prospect, but.......Sky Mesa (to my utter shock, really) has been a disaster. Does that worry you about Corinthian? Sky Mesa was Pulpit's first top son to go to stud......... I do like Purge, but of course he doesn't have runners yet.

Corinthian was a stakes horse for two seasons and he comes from a beautiful Claiborne family. I wouldn't dismiss him because of other Pulpit sons - did anyone write off AP Indy because of Houston or Slew O'Gold?

I can't believe that everyone has given up on Sky Mesa. His first crop to race are still two year olds. Same with Mineshaft....if a sire doesn't punch out a bunch of early winners, why is it written off as a "disaster" so quickly? Officer had a ton of early winners in his first crop and he has one Grade III winner to show for it. Yonaguska had a ton of early winners from his first crop - what were any of them worth? Sky Mesa descends from my FAVORITE female tail (Busanda) - how can you write him so fast? He was overhyped and probably stood for too much in his first year - that's not his fault. He's not my favorite sire type (early breakdown and broke down again at three), but give him a chance - geesh!

Well, I agree, but with Mineshaft (who I adore), he has sired some promising babies that have come on lately......Sky Mesa hasn't really had any. However, I still hold out hope. Pulpit was a brilliant horse who's turned into a very good sire - I hope Sky Mesa's offspring are just really late developers. Officer is just another sire of precocious babies who aren't that classy.....same with Yonaguska.

I haven't seen one sky mesa baby at a track yet. seriously.

I have seen some younaguska's as they get older, in high leve claimers and allowences.. I hit a 30 dollar win ticket at curchill on one dropping from allowence to 25k claimer. won by 3

[Rokeby Forever]

that's it. you like horses like buckpasser and polish navy, but they dont' come from Sky Mesa's side of the family.

They came from Busanda and a daughter of Busanda...if that's not Sky Mesa's side of the family, what is? If you're talking about different branches of Busanda, then yes...Polish Navy is from a different one. But Busanda is Busanda!

I told you that Corinthian is my top choice as a new stallion, and I agree - the Claiborne family he's from is one of the tops in the business... that's why I like him so much. But Busanda is a Goddess in the sport. I'm not crazy about Sky Mesa as a stallion, but I wouldn't write him off so quickly as a "disaster." As long as he has Busanda in those veins, he has a chance as a sire.

[bdw0617]

different branches of Busanda, then yes

Yes I am. Put in human terms, if I go to a family reunion and my great grandmother (who is still alive and walking thank you) has a a daughter, that has a daughter that has a daughter....that's alot of degrees of seperation where there we are related, but at that point I would venture to say that corinthian and sky mesa have more relative relation by way of sire than by dam. ontwords, and this is just my opinion, another brench of Busanda that branches off and does it's own thing isn not revelant to me to what this dam's branch has done, which is not a hell of alot. definatly worse families out there, but this isn't the brench that Busanda is known for.

that's why I like him so much.

he's just so darn purty

Busanda

so we should stand every male decent from the family at stud? I mean I like Julie London and Casablanca and all but I have to live in the day, Sky mesa shouldn't be hyped as tail female to Busanda. that ahs little revelance on howhe should stand at stud. Read Jason Halls' "six generation stallion" not that I took any of that from him, i'm aruging with you over a theory I din't even believe in, I'm all about dam's and the siblings, I could care less what the family has done in the past, but I"m just proving on mutliple points why I love cornthian

As long as he has Busanda in those veins, he has a chance as a sire.

38 runners, only 1 so far is stakes quality. let's hope for better. there are some real suprises on that first crop list. VAN NISTELROOY might be storm cat's 2nd best son at stud right now.

D'WILDCAT is the hot young stallion NO one is talking about. 20% of his runners are stakes quality runners and he's based in FLORIDA for crying out loud and you can get him next year for WELL under 10 grand!

EQUALITY is another horse that you can get for probably a pack of hot wings and an ice cream sundae that is throwing stakes calibur horses.

[Tesio]

Sky Mesa comes from a much better family than Corinthian.

I have not given up on Sky Mesa yet. I can't, I have 2 mares in foal to him. I still think his runners could blossom next year. It took Empire Maker some time as well.

[Rokeby Forever]

Sky Mesa comes from a much better family than Corinthian.

I have not given up on Sky Mesa yet. I can't, I have 2 mares in foal to him. I still think his runners could blossom next year. It took Empire Maker some time as well.

Bullseye! AP Indy won a stake as a two year old, but nobody pushes his offspring to win one (unless they just have early talent). Who's to say that Sky Mesas don't need time? Sky Mesa himself may have needed time....not that John Ward would have cared.

[Betsy]

Sky Mesa comes from a much better family than Corinthian.

I have not given up on Sky Mesa yet. I can't, I have 2 mares in foal to him. I still think his runners could blossom next year. It took Empire Maker some time as well.

Bullseye! AP Indy won a stake as a two year old, but nobody pushes his offspring to win one (unless they just have early talent). Who's to say that Sky Mesas don't need time? Sky Mesa himself may have needed time....not that John Ward would have cared.

You're talking to the biggest Indy fan in the world who also thinks Pulpit may have been his most brilliant horse...amongst the many top horses he has sired. Sky Mesa hasn't sired one promising horse - come on. The winner's he's had have been claimers or MSW at Mountaineer. Three Chimneys is advertising him as having 3/4 of his winners on Polytrack. That's pretty sad that that's all they could find positive to say about him.

AP Indy, by the way, had an amazing first crop and, even as two year olds, they showed immense promise. It kills me to say this about Sky Mesa because he was a very talented horse, but IMO, he really has been horrible. I hope you guys are right.........

[Rokeby Forever]

I think Malibu Moon might have been his most talented son. It's hard to say.

Anyway, what kinds of mares did Sky Mesa get at 3C in his first season? Were they speedy type mares, or were they more distance laden, mile+ types? I'm looking at some of the pricier onces in his first crop and they were out of Alida (by Theatrical), Ascend (by Risen Star), Cocktail Sauce (by Tabasco Cat)...I don't see much "win early" with them.

I'm not a huge fan of Sky Mesa, but I think a crop deserves more than five months to prove if it can run or not. I think Yonaguska broke the record for first crop juvenile winners and most of them could have been claimed. Sky Mesa's dam, Caress, won Graded stakes on the turf, and maybe that's where his foals will excel. Let's see if Sky Mesas improve with age and distance before we start comparing Sky Mesa to Behrens and Gentlemen, OK?

[bdw0617]

I think Malibu Moon might have been his most talented son. It's hard to say.

interesting

I'm not a huge fan of Sky Mesa, but I think a crop deserves more than five months to prove if it can run or not.

while 5 months isn't enoguh time to prove if you CAN run, it's more tan enough time to give you an indication that you CAN'T. Meaning his horses aren't waffling in maiden special weight classes, having bad racing lucke and are just green.. they aren' tGOOD. they are in claiming races everywhere.

I want him to be successful... I don't ever want a horse not to be, but just telling you dont' get your hopes up.. it's not looking good.. with that said..2 months ago we made, someone did at least, made a post here about empire maker being a dud... while I haven't seen many colts, he's a filly producing machine rihgt about now. I'd say he has 3 fillies that can very well be int he kentucky oaks.

[Rokeby Forever]

someone did at least, made a post here about empire maker being a dud... while I haven't seen many colts, he's a filly producing machine rihgt about now. I'd say he has 3 fillies that can very well be int he kentucky oaks.

If Empire Maker passes along his problems, I wouldn't expect any of his offspring to get better with age.

I'd wait for Sky Mesas to hit the turf before I wrote him off. It's hard for me to defend any horse with Storm Cat in his veins, but that female family is too good for him to be written off so early. His dam was a turf stakes winner, his second dam is by Affirmed, and his third dam is by Round Table...why should he be a "win early" sire? Pulpit himself has a career 2% stat for two year old stakes winners from foals - Sky Mesa was more the exception than the rule.

[bdw0617]

okay roke, you are at a sale, and a sky mesa that is is a real looker is stearing you in the face. right bloodlines, right price....would you pull the trigger?

[Rokeby Forever]

It depends on how Sky Mesa proves himself in the next two or three years - but if a Cozzene or Rahy foal were the next horse in the ring, I wouldn't raise my hand for a Sky Mesa - no way, no how. LOL!