3 most intriguing. stallion prospects still racing?

Mali · Postby **Mali** » Thu May 22, 2008 1:31 pm

bdw0617 wrote:
Tesio wrote:On the other hand, Dansili has had nice results at stud. I would assume Cacique will be similarly successful. What a family!

lol, I like him to!!! I just like zanjero more. Look at Fall Aspen. Fall Aspen could make a baby with the best of them. They could all run like the dickens. Timber Country, Colorado Dancer, etc. 4 grade 1 winners.

Out of ALL of her mares, hell even throw in Timber Country, there is only 1 grandchild of hers worth any significance, and that's dubai millinum.. lol, now he makes up for a whole lot, but that's still 1 in like 50. and when I say any significance Id on't mean millionaires, I mean horses that could hit the track and make you a return on investment. Any return on investment. that's a horrid line of horses once you get past DM. he even has like 5 or 6 full siblings and not one of them can run.

Not to be a cad, but this is complete wrong and uninformed.

Just off the top of my head, stakes winners (many G1 and group winners) from her daughters and their daughters are Kabool, Sharaf Kabeer, Elnadim, Cypriata, Khulood, Mehthaaf, Occupandiste, Only Answer, Charnwood Forest, Medaaly, etc. And those are only the ones off the top of my head. This is probably only about 30% of the stakes winners descending from the daughters of Fall Aspen.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Thu May 22, 2008 2:25 pm

you are absolutly correct and I stand corrected. I dont' know what in the world I was thinking. maybe I wasn't.

Anyway, i can narrow in on colorado dancer in particuarlly, but I won't because it's a moot point. again I apologize for attempting to spred false information.

BUT the prmise of the point is still the same. Great runners don't necessarly guarnatee nor mean that you are guaranteed to be a great sire/dam.

kimberley mine · Postby **kimberley mine** » Thu May 22, 2008 3:36 pm

bdw0617 wrote:you are absolutly correct and I stand corrected. I dont' know what in the world I was thinking. maybe I wasn't.

Anyway, i can narrow in on colorado dancer in particuarlly, but I won't because it's a moot point. again I apologize for attempting to spred false information.

BUT the prmise of the point is still the same. Great runners don't necessarly guarnatee nor mean that you are guaranteed to be a great sire/dam.

Be nice to Fort Wood too.

And Horse Chestnut, while you're at it. He was one heck of a racehorse.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Thu May 22, 2008 6:55 pm

How about Bustin Stones? Or are his stones already busted?

AscotStud · Postby **AscotStud** » Fri May 23, 2008 10:37 pm

Earlier this year I put Court Vision near the top of my list...but he has done nothing to even warrant being anywhere close to an interesting stallion. Don't horses have to be able to run fast...a little to be a stallion these days. Ya he's got an awesome family, but if Evesdropper didn't turn anybody on, how the hell can Court Vision be up there.

Casino Drive looks to be the one. Solid family, unproven young daddy. 7 years from now he could be the man. I like First Defense a lot and also Champs.

pokeyman · Postby **pokeyman** » Sat May 24, 2008 4:15 am

UmmYeah wrote:Champs Elysee, I say. Is everyone allergic to grass?

I second that one.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Sat May 24, 2008 10:08 am

AscotStud wrote:Earlier this year I put Court Vision near the top of my list...but he has done nothing to even warrant being anywhere close to an interesting stallion. Don't horses have to be able to run fast...a little to be a stallion these days. Ya he's got an awesome family, but if Evesdropper didn't turn anybody on, how the hell can Court Vision be up there.

Casino Drive looks to be the one. Solid family, unproven young daddy. 7 years from now he could be the man. I like First Defense a lot and also Champs.

Don't horses have to be able to run fast...a little to be a stallion these days.

not really. he doesn't run fast but he doesn't run fast at a grade 1 level, it's relative. No one would confuse Empire Maker with Ghostzapper.

AscotStud · Postby **AscotStud** » Mon May 26, 2008 10:07 am

I like First Defense a lot

Aside from being by Unbridled's Song. If he can stay sound this year he should develop into a nice sprinter. Tough to knock that family.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Mon May 26, 2008 12:10 pm

AscotStud wrote:
I like First Defense a lot

Aside from being by Unbridled's Song. If he can stay sound this year he should develop into a nice sprinter. Tough to knock that family.

considering he ran 2nd to hard spun in the king's bishop last year, I'd like to thnk he already has developed into a nice sprinter

Crystal · Postby **Crystal** » Mon May 26, 2008 12:47 pm

I think Bustin Stones still has his stones, I think he will stand in NY and take over where his dad left off.

AscotStud · Postby **AscotStud** » Tue May 27, 2008 6:50 pm

AscotStud wrote:
Quote:
I like First Defense a lot

Aside from being by Unbridled's Song. If he can stay sound this year he should develop into a nice sprinter. Tough to knock that family.

considering he ran 2nd to hard spun in the king's bishop last year, I'd like to thnk he already has developed into a nice sprinter

Running 2nd in a G1 against 3 year olds is nice. But he has to prove himself v. older horses in graded company before I label him something other than an allowance/listed Stakes horse, which is a letdown given his pedigree. That being said I think he will develop into a nice (older horse) sprinter and I think he will emerge from the Saratoga meet a Graded winner. Making himself a very nice prospect.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed May 28, 2008 4:18 am

going so far as to call a grade 1 placed horse a let down in ANY pedigree is a stretch if you ask me.

that's like if Intercontinal had a nother brother that could not win a grade 1, but he could place in one, calling him a let down. Shoot that sounds like Champs'!

AscotStud · Postby **AscotStud** » Wed May 28, 2008 9:20 am

When a horses dam is narrowly 2nd in the Breeders Cup Sprint, and it retires without a Graded win, I would say that's a letdown. He can win all the allowance races in the world but if he can't win a graded race he is just another horse with a great pedigree. There are quite a few grade 1 placed horses standing for a couple grand all over North America. So far he has proved nothing v. older horses and to live up to his potential he must do something other than finish 2nd to Hard Spun. Or he too will be standing for under $10k.

bdw0617 · Postby **bdw0617** » Wed May 28, 2008 9:36 am

AscotStud wrote:When a horses dam is narrowly 2nd in the Breeders Cup Sprint, and it retires without a Graded win, I would say that's a letdown. He can win all the allowance races in the world but if he can't win a graded race he is just another horse with a great pedigree. There are quite a few grade 1 placed horses standing for a couple grand all over North America. So far he has proved nothing v. older horses and to live up to his potential he must do something other than finish 2nd to Hard Spun. Or he too will be standing for under $10k.

y ou just tried to pull a switcharoo and it's not going to work

you did not say GRADED STAKES win you said GRADE 1 WIN

Running 2nd in a G1 against 3 year olds is nice. But he has to prove himself v. older horses in graded company before I label him something other than an allowance/listed Stakes horse, which is a letdown given his pedigree.

it depends on who we are talking about.

you really have 2 horses here.. you have first defence out of honesty lady who is out of the toussaud. he has not WON a grade 1 sprint but he can ovbiously run and if you put him enough graded stakes he'd be sure to win one

you have Champs Elysees (it has to have the S at the end, Elysee is a different word with a different meaning , his name is short for "Avenue des Champs-Élysées" and prouncuned Choms Eleasay (i think that's right)" is out of a mare that while wasn't the best of runners herself, has produced like 4 millionares. He will be a millionare in due time. He is a group 1 placed horse on 2 different occussions and grade 2 winner.

let down?

Coquinerie · Postby **Coquinerie** » Wed May 28, 2008 1:37 pm

It's pronounced shahn-zay-lee-zay. And Elysee is acceptable and means the same thing. The singular Elysee is usually in reference to the Elysee Palace, which is the French equivalent of the White House. Although you will often hear Parisians refer to the champs the same way.

And as far as CE being a disappointment, it's all about perspective. I'm sure Darley is disappointed in his results thus far, expecting him to be a G1 by now.

He was the least competitive son of Hasili (I'm discounting the Sadler's Wells) in European races thus far, and their sending him to America was an attempt of securing easier G1 races, without question.

It's worth pointing out, however, that the exciting young stallion Dansili, was never ever able to win a G1, although he was competitive in some fo the best G1's throughout his career.