Danehill/Danehill Dancer

[Tappiano]

No, that came out wrong....

[Joltman]

Well, I ran a couple of Graded stakes mares with a couple of Danehill line stallions from the Aussies:

LUCKY OWNERS (by Danehill)

Zenyatta - A++ True Nicks (MP line) A+ Werk
Champagne D Oro - B (Med d Oro line) A Werk
Switch - A++ (Fappiano) D Werk
Turbulent Descent - C (AP Indy) F Werk
Jennys So Great - A++ (MP via Greatness) A Werk

So it would seem that with the MP lines, thenick numbers show up just great, which would make sense being the ND-MP lines (perhaps with other occurances showing up elsewhere in the pedigrees.

This is only one sire checked, by Danehill (not Danehill Dancer). Nevertheless, it would seem plausible that some mare owners whose mares nicked A++, especially with a turfy pedigree might find this of interest, given that the nicks are not deal killers.

jm

[kimberley mine]

So it would seem that with the MP lines, thenick numbers show up just great, which would make sense being the ND-MP lines (perhaps with other occurances showing up elsewhere in the pedigrees.

This is only one sire checked, by Danehill (not Danehill Dancer). Nevertheless, it would seem plausible that some mare owners whose mares nicked A++, especially with a turfy pedigree might find this of interest, given that the nicks are not deal killers.

jm

There's Mr P, and then there's Mr P. The lines that have been going great guns down under aren't necessarily the same that went great guns in North America. Fappiano in general has been a raging disappointment in Australia/NZ, but has been very important in South America. Street Cry, Straight Strike, and Elusive Quality have been the main sources of Mr P to succeed in the Aussie arena. King Cugat got a few good horses, but if you look a little more closely they are out of really good mares. Woodman was a flop, Fusaichi Pegasus got some good ones but again out of really good mares, Clang is useful but nobody is going out on a limb for him.

The one bloodline I in north America I would not hesitate to hook up with Danehill, and especially Danehill Dancer, is Roberto.

[Joltman]

. Fappiano in general has been a raging disappointment in Australia/NZ, but has been very important in South America.

The one bloodline I in north America I would not hesitate to hook up with Danehill, and especially Danehill Dancer, is Roberto.

KM - do you have any other info about why Fappiano hasn't worked down there? Do you mean as Sire or a BM sire?

jm

[kimberley mine]

KM - do you have any other info about why Fappiano hasn't worked down there? Do you mean as Sire or a BM sire?

jm

As a sireline. I think it's a combination of things...surface, physical type, racing aptitude, and surface. You might note, as well, that Fappiano is uncommon in Europe.

[Joltman]

Despite a rather limited opportunity, Defensive Play made a bit of a statement down under, with a few graded stakes horses( as well as being the bm sire of Efficient, a popular Melborne Cup winner and some other G1 horses, where his value as a bm sire may be better than as a sire per se.

I wonder what kind of a chance the better Fappiano line sires like Unbridled and Quiet American down there. Did any other Fappianos shuttle?

jm

[kimberley mine]

Despite a rather limited opportunity, Defensive Play made a bit of a statement down under, with a few graded stakes horses( as well as being the bm sire of Efficient, a popular Melborne Cup winner and some other G1 horses, where his value as a bm sire may be better than as a sire per se.

I wonder what kind of a chance the better Fappiano line sires like Unbridled and Quiet American down there. Did any other Fappianos shuttle?

jm

Defensive Play may not have had a large opportunity in terms of quantity, but he more than made up for it in quality. Millward was out of a mare whose half-sister produced a champion in Australia and a millionaire in Hong Kong; his unplaced 3/4 sibling World Guide produced a Gr-1 winner to the cover of Encosta de Lago. Mythical Play was out of a champion filly by the champion sire Kaoru Star. Listed winner Playful Fingers was a half to a Gr-3 winner and a listed-winning filly who was Gr-1 placed at Flemington (best track in Aus), out of a mare who was a half-sister to a Gr-2 winner who placed in the Whitney. Stakes-placed Defence Force was out of a Vain mare (!) whose dam was a full sister to none other than Golden Slipper winner Luskin Star!!

On the broodmare side, Efficient is by the best sire in New Zealand and arguably the best in all of Australasia, and his half-brother Guillotine is by the dauphin to Sadlers Wells empire, Montjeu. Sirmione, closely related to Millward, is by leading sire Encosta de Lago. Gorky Park, by Montjeu, is out of a placed mare whose dam produced a Gr-3 winner and two other stakes winners. The unraced mare Gin Player produced the Gr-1 winner Zarita to the cover of the very good staying horse Pentire and the Gr-2 winner Run Like The Wind to the NZ top 10 stallion Pins; Gin Player's dam was a multiple Gr-3 winner at Doomben in Queensland and is from the direct female line of Pins himself, through the branch of multiple Gr-1 winning filly Zasu.

In other words, he got good runners from mares where he should have gotten good runners, BUT his foals were frequently not the best produce of their dams. In addition, his success as a broodmare sire isn't like, say, Quiet American, but rather is from his fillies from very deep and productive female families being bred to some truly top sires who improve their mares across-the-board.

The same holds true for Unbridled's Song. Grey Song, his best horse, is out of a mare who produced another graded winner and a listed-placed horse, who is a full sister to a listed winner/Gr-1 placed mare who in turn produced a Gr-2 winner. His second-best horse, Omnitrader, is a half to another listed winner, out of a Snippets mare who is a full sister to three stakes winners and a listed placed and half to another stakes placed mare; this is the immediate family of NZ Gr-1 winner Fully Fledged. His Hong Kong-based stakes winner Trophy is a half to a three winners and a stakes winner from 6 to race, out of a full sister to champion Tri Belle, whose dam was highweight Star Belle. Stakes-placed Regrowth was from the direct female line of Snippets.

The other strain of Fappiano that is starting to make its way into the population is Roy, via Argentine-bred sons of Hussonet. It's too early to tell how those horses will do.

I'm not surprised that a lot of really nice mares got sent to these horses. If one is going to go through the time and expense to shuttle, it's only worth it if the horses gets a decent chance of success. That can be a huge boost to the Street Crys of the world, where they get an even stronger start than they would have otherwise, but it tends to weed out the less acceptable very quickly.

[Joltman]

nice analysis KM

thx

jm