The Green Monkey!

[griff]

Shammy Davis

You underestimate the power of hormone therapy.

I remember eating back beans and rice on a balcony over looking Bourbon Street and announced to my date that it was time to go back to the Panhandle as the transvestites were starting to look better than the hookers.

griff

[Fireslam]

I picked up 2 yearlings at a farm yesterday, and they just happened to have 2 Green Monkey yearlings there. Said they were the worst dispositioned horses they've ever had. Cant wait to get rid of them.

[Mahubah]

Shammy Davis

You underestimate the power of hormone therapy.

I remember eating back beans and rice on a balcony over looking Bourbon Street and announced to my date that it was time to go back to the Panhandle as the transvestites were starting to look better than the hookers.

griff

Yipes!

[summerhorse]

I picked up 2 yearlings at a farm yesterday, and they just happened to have 2 Green Monkey yearlings there. Said they were the worst dispositioned horses they've ever had. Cant wait to get rid of them.

Uh oh, I hope that isn't a trend.

[madelyn]

In my experience, most foals get their disposition from the sire. It's a major reason I refuse to breed a mare to a common, ill-mannered blockhead or a maneater.

[Jorge]

Let's try to re-analize this horse again. Putting aside the bidding drama that ended up raising his value at the end of the sale, what was expected from him as a racehorse? to become a super sprinter? a super miler? a Triple Crown trail serious contender? then a fashionable sire?

Opinions please!

[griff]

madelyn

I always thought foals got their dispositions from their dams; i.e., foals of low pecking order Omega mares will learn to be Omega horses by the way their dam and they are treated by the other mares and their foals

Last summer one of my yearling fillies, out of the terror of Charles town, backed up to a 2 YO gelding, out of my Omega mare, and popped him with both hind feet.

Everyone loves the way that 2 YO is put together and moves but I am concerned he might lack the fire to be a real race horse.

Both the yearling filly and the 2 YO gelding are by the same sire and he's a well behaved fairly easy to manage stallion by Seattle Slew.

griff

[madelyn]

griff, in my experience foals get their herd manners and dynamics affected somewhat by their dams, in the short time they are in a herd situation with their dams, but the internal smarts and temperament, trainability, etc., usually comes from the sire. For whatever reason. Give your 2 yo a chance. How they act in the field has no bearing on what they are like under tack. Of course, there are exceptions...

[Bast]

griff, in my experience foals get their herd manners and dynamics affected somewhat by their dams, in the short time they are in a herd situation with their dams, but the internal smarts and temperament, trainability, etc., usually comes from the sire. For whatever reason. Give your 2 yo a chance. How they act in the field has no bearing on what they are like under tack. Of course, there are exceptions...

I had a pair of fillies who were full sisters. Ghita was way, way at the bottom of the pecking order in a herd of mares. Everybody picked on this mare. I owned her year younger sister Bast, who was near the top of the heap at 2 and 3, and who took over the herd at 5. Once when Ghita and Bast were galloped together, Bast reached over and bit Ghita.

[griff]

Thanks Madelyn

the 2 YO's half brother also has the temperament of Ferdinand The Bull but the 2 YO's weanling full sister has the complete opposite temperament.

Maybe it's a female thing.

griff

[Joltman]

Let's try to re-analize this horse again. Putting aside the bidding drama that ended up raising his value at the end of the sale, what was expected from him as a racehorse? to become a super sprinter? a super miler? a Triple Crown trail serious contender? then a fashionable sire?

Opinions please!

I agree - we tend to pile on those favorites who disappoint when they are not all they are made out to be. We all agree that 16 miil was stupid for him, as was $1mil.

A LOT of people were interested in the horse. The BH Stallion Reg has the following for him:

His stride length was measured at 25 1/2 feet-topping
45 miles per hour.” –Data Track International

• “The Green Monkey had great bone, and the most perfect
balance I have ever seen.” –Demi O’Byrne - That coming from O'Byrne who has seen the best of the best says all I need to know about conformation. (Ferguson must have concurred)

This article (OK, by CNBC)

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32373784/The_16_ ... ll_Pan_Out

is interesting because it shows some of the behind the scenes stuff that was present at the sale. DeRenzo thought he would go for north of a couple $mil. It also mentions that he fell and had a spine injury at CD that probably compromised any chance to develop fully.

The horse is no dog. I'm not particularly impressed by his pedigree. But Danzig raced only 3 x lifetime, had a lot of speed, was given a chance and the rest is history - leading sire and sire of sires, despite the fact that Danzig's dam was a graded winner, but none of Danzig's siblings proved to be a runner of note.

So, I say let's give the horse a chance.

jm

[Crystal]

Last year I posted on my blog (about the last time I posted on my blog) that Ferg has spent around 50 mill on Storm Cat sons/daughters for Sheikh Mo' at Keeneland in the last 10 years. The average earning per starter was around around 15-20k.

A great judge of horse flesh he maybe.. a great judge of a runner I would question.

I would just call him a professional at spending royal money.

[Fireslam]

Surely you're not comparing The Green Monkey to Danzig?

[Jorge]

This article (OK, by CNBC)

http://www.cnbc.com/id/32373784/The_16_ ... ll_Pan_Out

Through the years I have found the following obvious highlights in his favor:

01. Very impressive physical.
02. Very healthy-looking coat.
03. Very mature-looking presence.
04. Eye-appealing color contrast between the black, white and bay coat he fashions.
05. Normal nice looking blaze.
06. Auspicious scintillating speed.
07. Fashionable en-vogue bloodlines.

Those were the very same attributes seen on the highly prized
Majestic Prince (1966), who eventually won the Kentucky Derby, Preakness and finished in the money at the Belmont Stakes. Later Majestic Prince became a successful sire.

What happened with The Green Monkey that his story
ended up being so different? Putting aside the one-off bidding battle
that resulted in a "sui-generis" high price, what rule of thumb lessons
can we learn about how to evaluate a high priced Thoroughbred?
Remember that in the case of Majestic Prince, his yearling auction
price ended up being a bargain.

[Joltman]

Surely you're not comparing The Green Monkey to Danzig?

I am - not calling them equals but simply finding commonalities that hint toward whether there is any future here. Certainly anyone breeding to Danzig his first year could not know or be assured of his success as a sire.

From what those at the time bid (not just surmised) and not just the final two but others, the consensus opinion at the time had to be that his conformation was tops. Danzig gets high marks - ahhh but those knees?

Both had great speed - Danzig's proven over sprinting distance. TGM, compromised by injury, could never display speed at a distance. Before injury, brilliant.

Forestry is no ND, who had already churned out top runners and sires by 1981. Neither will TGM will get any of the opportunity, let alone love, of breeders like the Claiborne connection to Danzig had.

Danzig's ff at the time had only 1 Graded stakes winners under the first two dams, other than Pas de Nom. Interestingly, some of the best runners under the grand dam were hurdlers. TGM actually has a decent ff - esp 2nd dam, there are lots out there that are better.

But sometimes a stallion will jump up and be relatively successful, especially those that showed brilliance early. TGM will really be swimming upstream to get ahead, but I would not be surprised if he had some early speedy 2yos. My prediction is that if he gets any chance at all with decent mares, he'll be on the rise fee wise this time in a 2 years. But I'm not saying he's another Danzig (or MP for that matter - speedy but few starts) - those are very rare indeed.

jm