Here is my totally unprofessional answer to Pete's question as to which of the two stallions i would choose to breed my mare to.
First of all, I liked the name MINNALOUSHE , and I looked the stallion up because I wanted to see what's behind the name. I like his genotype as basically a sprinter or early maturing type. He is butt-high as are most sprinters. He's a pretty horse and has a lot of 'classic' appeal, but all i have to go by is a picture. He has a brother by Bering which is absolutely gorgeous, named PENNEKAMP. I understand that he's going to stand in Italy in 2006. Looks the type these Romans like. Elegance par excellence., and he did some serious winning [7-6-0-0 $482,615/£299,913 ]. Another brother, NASR EL ARAB, by Al Nasir had an even better race career [16-6-2-2 $1,198,585]
And what a pretty name this great broodmare has: CORAL DANCE. 4 stakes winners! Of course, Point Given's dam, TURKOS TURN, was broodmare of the year, so also a star mare. I just don't like Point Given's phenotype. He doesn't look balanced at all, and he's not a 'uniform' type. Only his get will tell what he passes on. He's got his ugliness from his dam as his sire, Thunder Gulch, and in particular Gulch, are very attractive horses as was Mr. Prospector. Point Given is just too big to produce early maturing horses, would be my guess
Also, I prefer Green Dancer/Nijinsky to Turkoman/Alydar which, I confess, is a purely personal reason. Overall, from a pheotype angle, Point Given doesn't fit my mare an iota, as she is much more of a Mr. Prospector/Bold Ruler type mare.
It is intereting to note that the linebreeding of Black Minnaloushe is not sex blanced and neither is the linebreeding in Point Given or Giant's Causeway for that matter, so you have to wonder whether that is all that important afterall as all three were good race horses, and if one, two, or all three will flop as sires, then perhaps it might have mattered, but who really knows?
Last but not least. Minnaloushe is a lot more affordable and may be the better bargain all things considered as I bet his offspring will run better as 2-year olds.
SB
POINT GIVEN and MINNALOUSHE
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
Hi FOS,
They both had important winners from the perspective of identifying their potential. Also I had written to Karie a day or two before regarding Black Minnaloushe and was surprised by the strong effort that Loushe put in.
It was Point Given's first and Black Minnaloushe's first on turf.
Simply off the numbers, Thunder Gulch has been a feast or famine sire and more famine than feast (4% SW). Gulch's other sons are race horse sires, Golden Gear and Rage. There are some in the pipeline, but I have yet to be convinced that Gulch is a sire of sires.
Point Given saw his fee drop from $125,000 to $50,000. His sales averages have been over $100k, but not what one might have expected. A number of his get have sold for less as they've gotten older and I've seen at least three that I'd classify as 'oafs' and not likely to ever see the track - big, lumbering, slow boys that lacked coordination (only colts - not sure if that's a trend).
On the other hand, Black Minnaloushe is getting big, athletic foals. Not universally, but often enough to make me take notice. 3 winners from 14 foals isn't something special, but in the case of Loushe, he made his first start in the Tremont Stakes, heady stuff and then ripped a field with some well paid for colts. Now Black Minnaloushe has 4 winners from 14 starters, a stakes placed horse and has proven that his get will win on dirt or turf. I'd send a mare to him for free - for sure. What I'm seeing is interesting and is the more the profile of a sire that will succeed than not - and as you know, I'm not partial to sons of Storm Cat.
The following is NOT a literal comparison, more euphemistic since this thread isn't meant to be fun, not a scholarly exercise.
In 1970 Secretariat and Mr. Prospector were born. They entered stud in 1974 and 1975 respectively, but had you been asked this same question in 1976 or 1977 you would probably have selected Secretariat without hesitation.
I'm not making any comparisons of Point Given and Black Minnaloushe to Secretariat and Mr. Prospector past the choice that could be made and the point is simple, the cheaper stallion then and now maybe the right choice.
Regards,
Pete
They both had important winners from the perspective of identifying their potential. Also I had written to Karie a day or two before regarding Black Minnaloushe and was surprised by the strong effort that Loushe put in.
It was Point Given's first and Black Minnaloushe's first on turf.
Simply off the numbers, Thunder Gulch has been a feast or famine sire and more famine than feast (4% SW). Gulch's other sons are race horse sires, Golden Gear and Rage. There are some in the pipeline, but I have yet to be convinced that Gulch is a sire of sires.
Point Given saw his fee drop from $125,000 to $50,000. His sales averages have been over $100k, but not what one might have expected. A number of his get have sold for less as they've gotten older and I've seen at least three that I'd classify as 'oafs' and not likely to ever see the track - big, lumbering, slow boys that lacked coordination (only colts - not sure if that's a trend).
On the other hand, Black Minnaloushe is getting big, athletic foals. Not universally, but often enough to make me take notice. 3 winners from 14 foals isn't something special, but in the case of Loushe, he made his first start in the Tremont Stakes, heady stuff and then ripped a field with some well paid for colts. Now Black Minnaloushe has 4 winners from 14 starters, a stakes placed horse and has proven that his get will win on dirt or turf. I'd send a mare to him for free - for sure. What I'm seeing is interesting and is the more the profile of a sire that will succeed than not - and as you know, I'm not partial to sons of Storm Cat.
The following is NOT a literal comparison, more euphemistic since this thread isn't meant to be fun, not a scholarly exercise.
In 1970 Secretariat and Mr. Prospector were born. They entered stud in 1974 and 1975 respectively, but had you been asked this same question in 1976 or 1977 you would probably have selected Secretariat without hesitation.
I'm not making any comparisons of Point Given and Black Minnaloushe to Secretariat and Mr. Prospector past the choice that could be made and the point is simple, the cheaper stallion then and now maybe the right choice.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
-
JCBloodstock
- Maiden Special Weight
- Posts: 193
- Joined: Tue May 31, 2005 2:19 pm
- Location: Iowa
- Contact:
[quote
In 1970 Secretariat and Mr. Prospector were born. They entered stud in 1974 and 1975 respectively, but had you been asked this same question in 1976 or 1977 you would probably have selected Secretariat without hesitation.
Thats wild I thought that of Black Minnaloushe and Giant's Causeway that way-because at the time they brought GC here BM entered stud-I looked at both and bang for the buck and the pedigree of BM I'd take a chance on him even if they had of been equal in stud fee - I really think BM is one of the sleeper's out there.In the case of Secretariat/Mr. P-I hate to say it but I would have gone with Secretariat-but then I guess that's the lesson in itself-just because a horse has been superior to another on the racetrack does not translate to success in the shed-even off the fact that they have most likely been bred to better mares.I still do think tho in the case of Giant's Causeway-this will be the broodmare sire of the future and in a post earlier that was about comparing GC,Montjeu,El Prado & Fu Peg I gave my reasons for thinking that.As to Point Given - I think that his major problem is Thunder Gulch - he is a big hit and miss stallion and more miss than hit.
In 1970 Secretariat and Mr. Prospector were born. They entered stud in 1974 and 1975 respectively, but had you been asked this same question in 1976 or 1977 you would probably have selected Secretariat without hesitation.
Thats wild I thought that of Black Minnaloushe and Giant's Causeway that way-because at the time they brought GC here BM entered stud-I looked at both and bang for the buck and the pedigree of BM I'd take a chance on him even if they had of been equal in stud fee - I really think BM is one of the sleeper's out there.In the case of Secretariat/Mr. P-I hate to say it but I would have gone with Secretariat-but then I guess that's the lesson in itself-just because a horse has been superior to another on the racetrack does not translate to success in the shed-even off the fact that they have most likely been bred to better mares.I still do think tho in the case of Giant's Causeway-this will be the broodmare sire of the future and in a post earlier that was about comparing GC,Montjeu,El Prado & Fu Peg I gave my reasons for thinking that.As to Point Given - I think that his major problem is Thunder Gulch - he is a big hit and miss stallion and more miss than hit.
I am still having problems seeing why so many are on Black Minn's bandwagon... with the exception of considering the success of his current runners and the looks of his foals which have been in the sales ring, I'm not seeing anything that really supports him.
I was forced to find my notes on the Ashford stallions from the first time I saw him... they read:
Not much presence. Downgrade forstructure / bone (fine boned). Bad in front (knees and walk). "Skates" in back. Maybe okay for 2 yr. olds... older probably asking for health issues Not much to consider, even at money.
Race record: Beat tiring Mozart once, beat Minardi twice... not much else, overall not real impressive. Running style, came from off the pace, wore down rivals. Did show kick. Always on grass.
Of his foals to go through the sales ring last year, I looked at several. I found many to be surprisingly nice specimens... until they walked. I saw one or two which were okay, but pretty much not impressive.
As for his family... I must be missing something... its been almost 50 years since the birth of his third dam. There should be an abundance of black type during that time. I like a couple of his immedicate 1/2 sisters, but not enough to sing great praises.
If we are going on his foals solely... okay, I haven't seen enough of those to argue.
I was forced to find my notes on the Ashford stallions from the first time I saw him... they read:
Not much presence. Downgrade forstructure / bone (fine boned). Bad in front (knees and walk). "Skates" in back. Maybe okay for 2 yr. olds... older probably asking for health issues Not much to consider, even at money.
Race record: Beat tiring Mozart once, beat Minardi twice... not much else, overall not real impressive. Running style, came from off the pace, wore down rivals. Did show kick. Always on grass.
Of his foals to go through the sales ring last year, I looked at several. I found many to be surprisingly nice specimens... until they walked. I saw one or two which were okay, but pretty much not impressive.
As for his family... I must be missing something... its been almost 50 years since the birth of his third dam. There should be an abundance of black type during that time. I like a couple of his immedicate 1/2 sisters, but not enough to sing great praises.
If we are going on his foals solely... okay, I haven't seen enough of those to argue.
[quote="KAL"].
"Skates" in back.
...., I looked at several. I found many to be surprisingly nice specimens... until they walked.
Well, obviously, seeing is believing meaning in real life. So much can be hidden in a picture on which he looks quite nice.
Could you please detail the statemet above about the movements? What is 'perfect?'
SB
"Skates" in back.
...., I looked at several. I found many to be surprisingly nice specimens... until they walked.
Well, obviously, seeing is believing meaning in real life. So much can be hidden in a picture on which he looks quite nice.
Could you please detail the statemet above about the movements? What is 'perfect?'
SB
[quote="JCBloodstock"][quote
In the case of Secretariat/Mr. P-I hate to say it but I would have gone with Secretariat-but then I guess that's the lesson in itself-just because a horse has been superior to another on the racetrack does not translate to success in the shed-even off the fact that they have most likely been bred to better mares.
I don't know if a lesson can really be learned from it. Man O'War, to city an example, was a great race horse and a great sire. How can you predict these things. People make predictions but they never explain their reasoning. Secretariat was better than his reputation, for sure, and there are more 'residual' successes. After all, he offers broodmare strength in a good number of stallions in high demand at this time. For sure, he's not 'going away,' lol.
SB
In the case of Secretariat/Mr. P-I hate to say it but I would have gone with Secretariat-but then I guess that's the lesson in itself-just because a horse has been superior to another on the racetrack does not translate to success in the shed-even off the fact that they have most likely been bred to better mares.
I don't know if a lesson can really be learned from it. Man O'War, to city an example, was a great race horse and a great sire. How can you predict these things. People make predictions but they never explain their reasoning. Secretariat was better than his reputation, for sure, and there are more 'residual' successes. After all, he offers broodmare strength in a good number of stallions in high demand at this time. For sure, he's not 'going away,' lol.
SB
-
roving boy
- Allowance Winner
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:18 pm
- Location: Kentucky
I have to admit not caring for either stallion when they entered stud. After seeing their foals I still do not care for Point Given, but I now have a healthy respect for Black Minnaloushe, and would not be surprise to see him do well.
I saw a number that walked well, and most were athletic well-balanced types. Not all are correct but one would expect such as it is Storm Cat line and BM himself is not a correct horse.
The only Point Given I have seen that I thought was nice was the colt that sold for $475,000 at the 2004 FT July Sale (out of Pretty Eyes). Now a 2 year old with Baffert. I did not see the $800,000 colt that Lewis bought at 2004 KeeSep, but as Moynihan only buys very nice individuals, I would assume that one is special also.
Now that I think about it, in todays marketplace it only takes 1 good 2year old to "make" a stallion....maybe Point Given has 2 chances!
I saw a number that walked well, and most were athletic well-balanced types. Not all are correct but one would expect such as it is Storm Cat line and BM himself is not a correct horse.
The only Point Given I have seen that I thought was nice was the colt that sold for $475,000 at the 2004 FT July Sale (out of Pretty Eyes). Now a 2 year old with Baffert. I did not see the $800,000 colt that Lewis bought at 2004 KeeSep, but as Moynihan only buys very nice individuals, I would assume that one is special also.
Now that I think about it, in todays marketplace it only takes 1 good 2year old to "make" a stallion....maybe Point Given has 2 chances!
Roving Boy
Let me clarify a little...
First... I use the term "skates" to describe a motion where the feet come up and in, then the movement is outward as the horse pushes off. If viewed from the back, it looks very similar to ice skating... it is a totally personal term, I haven't heard it anywhere else. It isn't a big deal... just a descriptive reminder to myself (and admittedly, something I personally don't really care for... especially in a dirt-type horse).
Second, while I looked at several Black Minn's last year, and was unimpressed, I cannot say I have really seen enough to form a strong opinion about them. I don't care for Black Minn himself, however I strongly value LSB, Roving Boy, and Coquinerie's opinions, so the foals must have been a pleasant surprise.
Third, I mistakenly put that I liked a couple of his 1/2 sisters... obviously, that was in err... I meant to simply say 1/2 siblings.
Fourth, I revert to the original question... which would I rather bred to it I were going to keep the foal. Well... I am still not convinced that Black Minn will be successful, especially on dirt. I rate him somewhat similar to Bianconi, King of King's, and Catrail... so, I'm not really expecting much from him.
Fifth, Point Given stands at Three Chimneys while Ashford houses Black Minn. I don't wish to add to the society of numbers at Ashford.
Sixth, if I were to have a horse in training, I would be looking beyond one who might simply pay the bills, I would be looking for a "big" horse, one which could be a life changer. I simply think Point Given provides a much better chance of getting a "big" horse. Also, I think, here in North America, to get a truly "big" horse, you need to be looking at racing on dirt (and I prefer grass), thus, I would rather take my chances with a horse who was proven on dirt.
Seventh, Point Given may very well prove totally uncapable of reproducing anything like himself... he was a freak... a freak with an absolutely incredible cruising speed. If he could only pass some of that cruising speed along.... Also, while Point Given is far from perfect, he does have good bone and an incredible presence. Additionally, he matches well with a couple of my mares.
Of course, now that I have said all these things, you can be pretty certain that Black Minn will be the next Storm Cat and Point Given the next big flop.
First... I use the term "skates" to describe a motion where the feet come up and in, then the movement is outward as the horse pushes off. If viewed from the back, it looks very similar to ice skating... it is a totally personal term, I haven't heard it anywhere else. It isn't a big deal... just a descriptive reminder to myself (and admittedly, something I personally don't really care for... especially in a dirt-type horse).
Second, while I looked at several Black Minn's last year, and was unimpressed, I cannot say I have really seen enough to form a strong opinion about them. I don't care for Black Minn himself, however I strongly value LSB, Roving Boy, and Coquinerie's opinions, so the foals must have been a pleasant surprise.
Third, I mistakenly put that I liked a couple of his 1/2 sisters... obviously, that was in err... I meant to simply say 1/2 siblings.
Fourth, I revert to the original question... which would I rather bred to it I were going to keep the foal. Well... I am still not convinced that Black Minn will be successful, especially on dirt. I rate him somewhat similar to Bianconi, King of King's, and Catrail... so, I'm not really expecting much from him.
Fifth, Point Given stands at Three Chimneys while Ashford houses Black Minn. I don't wish to add to the society of numbers at Ashford.
Sixth, if I were to have a horse in training, I would be looking beyond one who might simply pay the bills, I would be looking for a "big" horse, one which could be a life changer. I simply think Point Given provides a much better chance of getting a "big" horse. Also, I think, here in North America, to get a truly "big" horse, you need to be looking at racing on dirt (and I prefer grass), thus, I would rather take my chances with a horse who was proven on dirt.
Seventh, Point Given may very well prove totally uncapable of reproducing anything like himself... he was a freak... a freak with an absolutely incredible cruising speed. If he could only pass some of that cruising speed along.... Also, while Point Given is far from perfect, he does have good bone and an incredible presence. Additionally, he matches well with a couple of my mares.
Of course, now that I have said all these things, you can be pretty certain that Black Minn will be the next Storm Cat and Point Given the next big flop.
-
roving boy
- Allowance Winner
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:18 pm
- Location: Kentucky
Hi all,
This thread was nominally about breeding a race horse and there were no wrong opinions. I was hoping to give an example that would highlight the benefit of changing perspective.
Had I been offered Secretariat or Mr. Prospector, from 1972 to 1976 (even while they were racing) I would have selected Secretariat without hesitation. In 1977 I might have been on the fence and from 1978 onwards I would have selected Mr. Prospector.
Had I been offered Point Given and Black Minnaloushe from 2000 to the present, I would have selected Point Given through 2004 and Black Minnaloushe in 2005.
Our evaluation of sires (and stallions) should always be under review. When Smok'n Frolic won the Demoiselle she proved that Smoke Glacken could get quality 2-turn runners.
I didn't give Black Minnaloushe my normal due diligence in analyzing his potential when he went out to stud. I evaluated him quickly and didn't feel that he would be of much interest to me or my clients.
As I've seen the quality of Black Minnaloushe's foals, their precocity, class and versatility (proven by Loushe), I've been forced to re-evaluate him. I'm not saying that he'll be a leading sire, or even an important one, but my preconceptions, prejudices and thoughts on this sire needed an update. When it comes to sires (or stallions) we should always be re-evaluating.
Regards,
Pete
P.S.: I'm not ending this thread, just interjecting.
This thread was nominally about breeding a race horse and there were no wrong opinions. I was hoping to give an example that would highlight the benefit of changing perspective.
Had I been offered Secretariat or Mr. Prospector, from 1972 to 1976 (even while they were racing) I would have selected Secretariat without hesitation. In 1977 I might have been on the fence and from 1978 onwards I would have selected Mr. Prospector.
Had I been offered Point Given and Black Minnaloushe from 2000 to the present, I would have selected Point Given through 2004 and Black Minnaloushe in 2005.
Our evaluation of sires (and stallions) should always be under review. When Smok'n Frolic won the Demoiselle she proved that Smoke Glacken could get quality 2-turn runners.
I didn't give Black Minnaloushe my normal due diligence in analyzing his potential when he went out to stud. I evaluated him quickly and didn't feel that he would be of much interest to me or my clients.
As I've seen the quality of Black Minnaloushe's foals, their precocity, class and versatility (proven by Loushe), I've been forced to re-evaluate him. I'm not saying that he'll be a leading sire, or even an important one, but my preconceptions, prejudices and thoughts on this sire needed an update. When it comes to sires (or stallions) we should always be re-evaluating.
Regards,
Pete
P.S.: I'm not ending this thread, just interjecting.
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
-
louis finochio
- Darley line
- Posts: 9181
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:21 am
- Location: Alhambra-Calif.
- Contact:
A friend of mine received a free breeding to BM and is very happy at this time of getting the news that BM already has produced 4 winners.
For breeders looking to improve their BM band, Secretariat was the choice over Affirmed, as can be seen today in the influence Secretariat has left us.
Those breeders that wait on these freshman sires to see what crosses of sire lines are producing those superior runners will prosper as both PG and BM are getting off to a fast start.
For breeders looking to improve their BM band, Secretariat was the choice over Affirmed, as can be seen today in the influence Secretariat has left us.
Those breeders that wait on these freshman sires to see what crosses of sire lines are producing those superior runners will prosper as both PG and BM are getting off to a fast start.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
-
roving boy
- Allowance Winner
- Posts: 294
- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:18 pm
- Location: Kentucky
hi Pete
You wrote "Had I been offered Secretariat or Mr. Prospector, from 1972 to 1976 (even while they were racing) I would have selected Secretariat without hesitation."
Pete...I expect that a very high percentage would have agreed with your selection (at that time)...BUT
...I must say...my first impression of Secretariat (when I saw him in the flesh)...was that he was top-heavy. By that I mean his shoulder and neck appeared to me to be disproportionately heavy (in relation to the rest of his body). That concerned me about him...very much.
As years passed and he was standing at stud...it became even more pronounced (as far as I was concerned). I couldn't get past that.
Respectfully
You wrote "Had I been offered Secretariat or Mr. Prospector, from 1972 to 1976 (even while they were racing) I would have selected Secretariat without hesitation."
Pete...I expect that a very high percentage would have agreed with your selection (at that time)...BUT
...I must say...my first impression of Secretariat (when I saw him in the flesh)...was that he was top-heavy. By that I mean his shoulder and neck appeared to me to be disproportionately heavy (in relation to the rest of his body). That concerned me about him...very much.
As years passed and he was standing at stud...it became even more pronounced (as far as I was concerned). I couldn't get past that.
Respectfully
-
louis finochio
- Darley line
- Posts: 9181
- Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2004 5:21 am
- Location: Alhambra-Calif.
- Contact:
Secretariat was destiny to become a better than average BMS, one only has to read his pedigree to find the answer.
I have yet to see anyone be a know it all and pick all the freshman sires that will produced the spark that will ignite the forest fire.
When I saw Coolmore's stallion brochure I remember BM as a striking individual, but pictures can be deceving, nice to see BM off to a good start.
I have yet to see anyone be a know it all and pick all the freshman sires that will produced the spark that will ignite the forest fire.
When I saw Coolmore's stallion brochure I remember BM as a striking individual, but pictures can be deceving, nice to see BM off to a good start.
Those without sin cast the first stone.
Louis Finochio
Louis Finochio
Hi FOS,
Secretariat's top-heavy look would be expected to become more pronounced after he stood at stud. The genetic is what he looked like when he started at stud. Some comformational faults are not genetic, such as mares toeing-in as they get older. I had a mare who began to toe-in at 10, but was an $80k Sky Classic weanling, so you can make a strong assumption that this is a flaw that developed as she matured.
I believe I know the feeling that you're trying to convey, something that stuck in your mind that you didn't like physically about him but would you have preferred Mr. Prospector to Secretariat in 1975?
__________________________________________________________
I knew a kid in 5th grade named Bob. He was slim and fast. So fast in fact that he beat everyone in the school in a 60yard dash - and then all but one kid in the Junior High (7th/8th graders).
Bob's dad died and he had several family problems. Over the years he put on a lot of weight until he was about 400lbs at 5'9".
When we were about 20, I was playing a lot of football and regularly clocked 5.1 or 5.2 in the 40 yard dash. I was with Bob when I mentioned to someone that Bob used to be real fast.
"Used to be!?", Bob cried out, "I still am. I'm faster than you -I'll race you."
I was worried about embarrassing him but Bob kept chiding me until I agreed and accepted his challenge.
Bob was so heavy that he walked on the outside part of his feet. He wasn't muscular and most of his weight was around his stomach like a large jiggling inner tube.
Some friends drew the start and finish line 50 yards away. We took our marks (standing) and someone yelled, "Go".
Bob was left flat footed and I had a good start. I felt good and ran well until about 10 yards from the finish Bob surged past me like an express train at a local stop, winning by about 5 feet. Two guys timed it off their watches and said it was 6.0 and 5.9. No one could believe it - either the time or how fast Bob was.
Bob, if you're out there, hope you're well and thanks for illustrating the point that conformation for a specific purpose can be deceiving.
If ever there was a human being who didn't look like they could possibly run fast, Bob was one (I might be the other
, yet he was fast as a child and as an overweight adult. He had spindly legs and a huge gut.
Some horses simply don't have the conformation to inspire confidence that they can run fast, yet they do.
Go figure.
Regards,
Pete
Secretariat's top-heavy look would be expected to become more pronounced after he stood at stud. The genetic is what he looked like when he started at stud. Some comformational faults are not genetic, such as mares toeing-in as they get older. I had a mare who began to toe-in at 10, but was an $80k Sky Classic weanling, so you can make a strong assumption that this is a flaw that developed as she matured.
I believe I know the feeling that you're trying to convey, something that stuck in your mind that you didn't like physically about him but would you have preferred Mr. Prospector to Secretariat in 1975?
__________________________________________________________
I knew a kid in 5th grade named Bob. He was slim and fast. So fast in fact that he beat everyone in the school in a 60yard dash - and then all but one kid in the Junior High (7th/8th graders).
Bob's dad died and he had several family problems. Over the years he put on a lot of weight until he was about 400lbs at 5'9".
When we were about 20, I was playing a lot of football and regularly clocked 5.1 or 5.2 in the 40 yard dash. I was with Bob when I mentioned to someone that Bob used to be real fast.
"Used to be!?", Bob cried out, "I still am. I'm faster than you -I'll race you."
I was worried about embarrassing him but Bob kept chiding me until I agreed and accepted his challenge.
Bob was so heavy that he walked on the outside part of his feet. He wasn't muscular and most of his weight was around his stomach like a large jiggling inner tube.
Some friends drew the start and finish line 50 yards away. We took our marks (standing) and someone yelled, "Go".
Bob was left flat footed and I had a good start. I felt good and ran well until about 10 yards from the finish Bob surged past me like an express train at a local stop, winning by about 5 feet. Two guys timed it off their watches and said it was 6.0 and 5.9. No one could believe it - either the time or how fast Bob was.
Bob, if you're out there, hope you're well and thanks for illustrating the point that conformation for a specific purpose can be deceiving.
If ever there was a human being who didn't look like they could possibly run fast, Bob was one (I might be the other
, yet he was fast as a child and as an overweight adult. He had spindly legs and a huge gut.
Some horses simply don't have the conformation to inspire confidence that they can run fast, yet they do.
Go figure.
Regards,
Pete
Has a palomino jean that pop up some.
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms
This stallion is DNA ... all foal can be MBNA inrolled.
Horses like their credit cards. - Four Forty Farms