hi Dray33
If the debate comes down to Dynaformer v Unbridled's Song, as to which of the two offers a higher probability of putting more leg on a foal than mom seems to offer...I submit that based on what I've seen through the years, it's hands down Dynaformer...
...and that's not to say that US doesn't have it in him...just that I sense your chances are better to get a leggier foal (from what might be described as a mare that could possibly benefit from some help in that area) by using Dynaformer rather than Unbridled's Song.
Respectfully
Opinion: Need a "leggy" sire:
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
I own 1/3 of the mare, the majority owner makes the final decision. They have been leaning toward Unbridled's Song, as many of you had mentioned. Well done. Personally, I would love to try Dynaformer.
The mare herself is a bit short and boxey. She is solid and has good bone. Her foals thus far are taking after her, not the sire. We are hoping for the one that breaks the pattern. The foals almost look "Quarterhorse" like. Big backside, shorter legged.
I also like Rahy as a sire, ak1. Any thoughts on Devil His Due, Sliver Deputy or a personal fave, Indian Charlie? I don't think these are commercial enough however.
The mare herself is a bit short and boxey. She is solid and has good bone. Her foals thus far are taking after her, not the sire. We are hoping for the one that breaks the pattern. The foals almost look "Quarterhorse" like. Big backside, shorter legged.
I also like Rahy as a sire, ak1. Any thoughts on Devil His Due, Sliver Deputy or a personal fave, Indian Charlie? I don't think these are commercial enough however.
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Vindicated
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kimberley mine
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Dray, Queen Mama is a Slew mare, right? If you are shopping in the price range of Unbridled's Song or Dynaformer, why not Seeking the Gold? This is the cross of Seeking the Pearl, Cape Town, Enthused, Mutakkdim, Seeking Slew, Ford Every Stream, etc.
He's faded in popularity a bit, but he is still capable of getting a good one (Pleasant Home) and still has enough commercial popularity to get a Keeneland sales topper in recent years (Cash Run).
He's faded in popularity a bit, but he is still capable of getting a good one (Pleasant Home) and still has enough commercial popularity to get a Keeneland sales topper in recent years (Cash Run).
As much as I like Seeking the Gold, he doesnt always throw the most clean legged of foals and also, he doesnt usually get a large foal from my experience. They tend to be a good size, but the Flitabout clan is notoriously unsound (yet brilliant) and I much prefer buying a STG than breeding one for those reasons. Another thing to keep in mind, his fillies are far better than his colts. In theory, you have a 50% chance of getting a filly (I say theory because i've seen a mare abort 3 fetuses, all male and carry to term 6 fillies. Its a proven fact male fetuses are often weaker in early development in humans, can imagine might be true in equines as well after seeing quite a few cases like the example I gave.). Remember also, his "sale topper" was a champion quality mare in-foal who's price rose while dissolving a partnership and that her sire, STG, is a very respected BMS, again, emphasizing his female offspring.
Im guessing Dray is selling for the ring and with that in mind I stand by Unbridled's Song. As much as I like Dynaformer in every aspect, he just doesnt hold the commercial appeal as US and the next jump up in class for the same type of stallion is a big one in Indy at 300k.
Im guessing Dray is selling for the ring and with that in mind I stand by Unbridled's Song. As much as I like Dynaformer in every aspect, he just doesnt hold the commercial appeal as US and the next jump up in class for the same type of stallion is a big one in Indy at 300k.
hi dray33
You have expanded your description of the mare, and written "The mare herself is a bit short and boxey. She is solid and has good bone. Her foals thus far are taking after her, not the sire. We are hoping for the one that breaks the pattern."
Fair enough...but if you are looking for a leggy Unbridled's Song out of that kind of mare...I suggest your chances are probably very slim. Of the numerous Unbridled's Song offspring that I've seen (including many at their dam's side) I cannot recall EVER seeing a particularly leggy one from a mare that was "short and boxey" (your words).
Again...I suggest that your mare (based on the way you describe her) falls into the very-slim-chance-of getting-a-leggy-one by Unbridled's Song category.
Respectfully...I expect that you're probably setting yourself up for a big disappointment by using Unbridled's Song (for your mare)...especially since (arguably) the Unbridled's Songs that seem to have had the most market appeal are NOT "short and boxey". All Things Considered (including US's $150k stud fee for 2006)...I suggest the odds of coming out on this deal (with your type of mare) DO NOT sound like they're stacked in your favor.
That said...if your willing to take a calculated risk with an unproven commodity...why not consider Rock Hard Ten? He's apparently a VERY leggy son of Kris S. I would expect (based on many descriptions of him from various credible sources...plus factoring in that Kris S himself often got a very leggy kind...even from shorter mares)...that Rock Hard Ten might be a good bet to accomplish what you're looking for. I expect also that a good RHT should have lots of market appeal...and potentially sell like gangbusters.
Consider this...the market already has an idea of what successful Unbridled's Songs often look like. That said...it's probably fair to say that "short and boxey" is not exactly what the market might describe as the prototype Unbridled's Song...or the kind of US that is most likely to attract the big bucks.
...on the other hand...it will be years before the market will have an idea of what the successful (or prototype if you will) RHTs often look like. With that in mind, and knowing that your mare has plenty of bone and quarters...I expect that a sturdy, good-legged Rock Hard Ten (whether leggy or not) with plenty of bone and quarters will attract lots of attention (at least at the outset of his career).
Best to you.
Respectfully
You have expanded your description of the mare, and written "The mare herself is a bit short and boxey. She is solid and has good bone. Her foals thus far are taking after her, not the sire. We are hoping for the one that breaks the pattern."
Fair enough...but if you are looking for a leggy Unbridled's Song out of that kind of mare...I suggest your chances are probably very slim. Of the numerous Unbridled's Song offspring that I've seen (including many at their dam's side) I cannot recall EVER seeing a particularly leggy one from a mare that was "short and boxey" (your words).
Again...I suggest that your mare (based on the way you describe her) falls into the very-slim-chance-of getting-a-leggy-one by Unbridled's Song category.
Respectfully...I expect that you're probably setting yourself up for a big disappointment by using Unbridled's Song (for your mare)...especially since (arguably) the Unbridled's Songs that seem to have had the most market appeal are NOT "short and boxey". All Things Considered (including US's $150k stud fee for 2006)...I suggest the odds of coming out on this deal (with your type of mare) DO NOT sound like they're stacked in your favor.
That said...if your willing to take a calculated risk with an unproven commodity...why not consider Rock Hard Ten? He's apparently a VERY leggy son of Kris S. I would expect (based on many descriptions of him from various credible sources...plus factoring in that Kris S himself often got a very leggy kind...even from shorter mares)...that Rock Hard Ten might be a good bet to accomplish what you're looking for. I expect also that a good RHT should have lots of market appeal...and potentially sell like gangbusters.
Consider this...the market already has an idea of what successful Unbridled's Songs often look like. That said...it's probably fair to say that "short and boxey" is not exactly what the market might describe as the prototype Unbridled's Song...or the kind of US that is most likely to attract the big bucks.
...on the other hand...it will be years before the market will have an idea of what the successful (or prototype if you will) RHTs often look like. With that in mind, and knowing that your mare has plenty of bone and quarters...I expect that a sturdy, good-legged Rock Hard Ten (whether leggy or not) with plenty of bone and quarters will attract lots of attention (at least at the outset of his career).
Best to you.
Respectfully
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Morningside
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Looking for legs? I've got a now 2yo that I picked up as a yearling and boy has he got legs. They go ALL the way up. And they're perfect, with large well-formed joints and no deviations. I thought they were done growing but noooo. He's nearly 17h, by Skip Away out of Latin Discovery (named Here Be A Monster). The question is, did he get Mom's legs or Dad's? What are Skip Away's legs like? That horse sure could run...
So Run for the Roses, as fast as you can.....
madelyn wrote:Looking for legs? I've got a now 2yo that I picked up as a yearling and boy has he got legs. They go ALL the way up. And they're perfect, with large well-formed joints and no deviations. I thought they were done growing but noooo. He's nearly 17h, by Skip Away out of Latin Discovery (named Here Be A Monster). The question is, did he get Mom's legs or Dad's? What are Skip Away's legs like? That horse sure could run...
There are some gorgeous pictures on Hopewells website of Skippy trotting across the pasture....with the action displayed, he could certainly give a warmblood a run for his money in the dressage ring!
dray33 wrote:
I also like Rahy as a sire, ak1. Any thoughts on Devil His Due, Sliver Deputy or a personal fave, Indian Charlie? I don't think these are commercial enough however.
Of the three, I'd think a foal by Silver Deputy would be the most commercial at a "big sale". Hmmm, this foal would have a lot of Northern Dancer in it so could easily be a blocky sort too. The other two are much more of the breed to race variety perhaps with the occasional exceptional 2 yr old in training sale. And I really like Devil His Due!
Will have to throw a vote for Dynaformer over Unbridled's Song. RHT is certainly an interesting thought as well....And I agree with the comment mentioned in one of the posts that, while money is no object, the best stallion for her may not be the most expensive animal out there. Case in point, I think I might go to Two Punch vs Seeking the Gold.
HA! Now that is funny. 
I love RHT, it's a really good idea. Ill pass 'em by the majority owners and report back on what the deal is. Can't wait to see the EMPIRE MAKER foal, it's a colt.
Also, I LOVE the FORESTRY colt, and if he does not sell well, I have already told them I would buy him hands-down. I think he has everything it takes to be special.
Here are pictures of them both a few months ago, by the way... DUH! I should have attached them sooner, sorry all:
http://homepage.mac.com/dray33/queenmam ... lbum3.html
We bought her at the Keeneland sale, I loved her pedigree and had a "hunch" about her. Watch out for them hunches. It'll cost ya. Also she was in foal to FORESTRY, a fave of mine. We were really really hoping for a leggier foal, oh well.
Sometimes those hunches work out. Sometimes not. I have a good story about one that worked... one day I'll blab.
I love RHT, it's a really good idea. Ill pass 'em by the majority owners and report back on what the deal is. Can't wait to see the EMPIRE MAKER foal, it's a colt.
Also, I LOVE the FORESTRY colt, and if he does not sell well, I have already told them I would buy him hands-down. I think he has everything it takes to be special.
Here are pictures of them both a few months ago, by the way... DUH! I should have attached them sooner, sorry all:
http://homepage.mac.com/dray33/queenmam ... lbum3.html
We bought her at the Keeneland sale, I loved her pedigree and had a "hunch" about her. Watch out for them hunches. It'll cost ya. Also she was in foal to FORESTRY, a fave of mine. We were really really hoping for a leggier foal, oh well.
Sometimes those hunches work out. Sometimes not. I have a good story about one that worked... one day I'll blab.
Last edited by dray33 on Thu Jan 26, 2006 3:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I've heard AP Indy throws smaller feet than you might prefer which, if I understood correctly on that feet thing, wouldn't be good for a horse that's large in every other respect right?
And about Quiet American-- did Real Quiet take after his dam physically? Cuz he was so narrow he got dubbed 'the fish' let's not forget.
Unbridled's Song always makes me nervous. Too many talented horses coming up injured with him as their sire so you figure he must be throwing ability with a physical hitch. Too much body for the legs to hold? I thought that's what someone said. I got excited about too many obviously nice horses that just couldn't hold up under the strain so I got a bad taste in my mouth there.
What about Thunder Gulch or Point Given? They don't exactly throw small foals. Point Determined is apparently pretty big like his daddy (PG) according to an article that I read. I'm not assuming conformation of the leg here, just height, cuz I was squinting at them and I can't totally tell from photos and the walking videos as far as correctness goes. Gotta say my vote here so far would go to Tiznow cuz I'm a huge fan of his, I'm sure some folks will tell you, but if he really does throw big legs I bet you'll get a hardknocking and gutsy horse from him.
And about Quiet American-- did Real Quiet take after his dam physically? Cuz he was so narrow he got dubbed 'the fish' let's not forget.
Unbridled's Song always makes me nervous. Too many talented horses coming up injured with him as their sire so you figure he must be throwing ability with a physical hitch. Too much body for the legs to hold? I thought that's what someone said. I got excited about too many obviously nice horses that just couldn't hold up under the strain so I got a bad taste in my mouth there.
What about Thunder Gulch or Point Given? They don't exactly throw small foals. Point Determined is apparently pretty big like his daddy (PG) according to an article that I read. I'm not assuming conformation of the leg here, just height, cuz I was squinting at them and I can't totally tell from photos and the walking videos as far as correctness goes. Gotta say my vote here so far would go to Tiznow cuz I'm a huge fan of his, I'm sure some folks will tell you, but if he really does throw big legs I bet you'll get a hardknocking and gutsy horse from him.
How about Unbridled Jet? Examples below.
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2005
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2005
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2005
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2005
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2004
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2004
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2005
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2005
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2005
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2005
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2004
http://countrylifefarm.com/Foals/index.cfm?FYear=2004
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