hi halo
halo wrote:rudydee wrote:I have a mare who has been having babies that are very well conformed.
To take advantage of New York's breeding program, I had to breed back to a NY based stallion. I narrowed my choices down to Good and Tough and City Zip. I called around to a number of stallion managers all who said the same thing-City Zip is a conformational mess on his front end. It is the reason he was so inexpensive as a yearling. So, I went for Good and Tough. The resultant foal is a conformational mess. This business is so humbling.
Conformation of a stallion has nothing to do with whether he will be a top producing stallion. Never has.
I agree that any thoroughbred stallion (regardless of conformation) could come up with some good runners, why not? But why should a commercial breeder use a stallion that presents conformational concerns/issues that seem to suggest that his chances for success (whether at the sales or at the racetrack) are probably leaning in the direction of unlikely or highly unlikely? That said...if such a stallion had a history of success (in siring racehorses and/or sales horses) to offset or counterbalance his conformational issues/concerns...arguably he'd have to be reconsidered as a potentially viable stallion selection.
Question is...why not wait for that stallion (whose conformation might have raised a red flag in the mind of a commercial breeder) to start proving his worth (as a sire) before breeding to him? Arguably, then there'll be a better chance to make some money if a breeder takes a shot a that time. That's exactly what some did when a number of Saint Ballado's (your example) first-crop runners caught the attention of some astute observers. Those that recognized what was unfolding and took advantage of the timing, had an opportunity to make some money...whereas those that only bred to Saint Ballado very early on probably didn't.
halo wrote:Otherwise it would be a simple matter of picking the most perfectly conformed stallion and breeding to him. Look at all the top priced yearlings that are perfectly conformed and can't beat me.
If that
"perfectly conformed" stallion was that same stallion that
"can't beat (you)"...something tells me that you would NOT breed to him
.
As for big-dollar and TOP priced yearlings (and maybe a top-priced 2-yo) that might or might not have been, per your words
"perfectly conformed" (perfect is arguably an impossible order to fill) and could also run (and I expect could beat you
)...and that arguably did make it BIG at stud, what about the following. For starters, what about Nijinsky & Mr Prospector...hmmm. And what about Unbridled's Song...a million-dollar plus 2-yo in training (at the time when such a number was a rarity). And what about A.P. Indy...how many millions did he sell for at auction? And non-stakes-winner but undefeated Danzig (an example you reference)...how much did he fetch as a yearling...was it a million dollars+- (as they say...back in the day). Many high priced or top priced horses don't make it...but clearly some certainly do.
halo wrote:How many people do you think turned Danzig down when he first went to stud? Smart breeders bred to him anyway due to his absolute brilliance on the track.
Many (if not most) breeders turned Danzig down for one reason, and one reason alone, because he was considered to be overpriced at an introductory stud fee of $20,000 (and $80,000 per share). Simple as that.
halo wrote:Smart breeders bred to him anyway due to his absolute brilliance on the track. It paid off.
Maybe some did breed to Danzig for his
"brilliance on the track" (as you described it)...but my experience was that for many (if not for most) it was difficult (if not impossible) to justify Danzig at a $20k stud fee. If you speak to some that bred to him at the outset, I expect that you'll find that many (if not most) of those that did breed to him then, wanted access to the Claiborne stallions that were difficult to get to...and breeding to Danzig was a price that had to be paid (by some) for any possible chance at access to the big boys.
halo wrote:I can tell you theres were dozens and dozens of people who passed on Saint Ballado when he was down here. Afterwards they were dearly sorry that they had.
Fair enough...but arguably few who bred to SB only at the very outset of his career at stud, made much in the way of a score when selling the resultant foal(s). You might agree...it wasn't until some of his offspring showed something at the races that things really started happening. And while SB stood his last year in Florida, sparks started flying. It seemed like everyone wanted to get on the bandwagon. A frenzy developed, and the rest is history.
You might agree...in general, most that made real money with Saint Ballado (while he stood in Florida) bred to him his last two years in Ocala. I expect that few of his early supporters had experienced much in the way of a financial windfall...but it was their willingness to support the young Saint Ballado that enabled him to show what he could do.
Respectfully
