Keeneland Sales Results---Distorted Humor, Unbridled's Song?

[bdw0617]

I like how you completely disregard any HANDS ON experience someone has over your THOUGHTS. Anyhow, that is your problem, not mine. Also, you should read your posts before you submit them, they make no sense. Again, not a problem of mine.

Of the AP Indy's I've worked with, none of them came from the same trainer, same owner, same breeder, same track, same dam, etc. They were all different ages, from 2 to 6.

True, there are many issues at play. But, what are the chances they all had thin walled, sensitive hooves? I am not the only one saying they have bad feet. You are the only one saying whatever you are trying to say.

You should be done. You should listen to the people on here, they have a lot of good things to say.

dont' take offense

I'm not disregarding "hands on experience" nor am I slapping you in the face, all I'm saying is that you are making the EXTREMLY simplistic view that because AP Indy is the sire, than that is the sole reason, when there could be a number of reasons for the feet issues

Again.. I can't speak for now.. I haven't placed my hands on AP Indy and looked at him myself.. but I have read various accounts of when AP Indy was on sale as a yearling and he was and I quote, 'FLAWLESS AS FLAWLESS CAN BE"... besides the fact that we was a ridgling and if he wasn't he would have sold for more than 2.9 million.

[Maven]

We're all still waiting for your 30 quoted examples of him being a flawless specimen. I'd be shocked if you found more than 5 that didn't come from someone affiliated with Lane's End.

So, multiple people with personal experience with Indy and his offspring all have the same consensus and yet you still dispute it as fiction. Wow. Just wow.

[bdw0617]

maven you are very quickly becoming the next Roke

[Maven]

How so? Because I want to see fact instead of fiction in a thread about one of our very best stallions?

[Roguelet]

OK, I have to throw my 2 cents into this one. As most of you know, I am very familiar with a son of A.P. Indy, on an "up close and personal" level, and this boy has wonderful feet. They are good sized, strong, he goes barefoot with zero issues. His offspring, at least the ones that I have been personally involved with (which have been quite a few) also have strong, solid, good sized feet. I have never seen the first problem with them.

We do have a mare who throws "shelly" feet, but she also throws runners and winners so we deal with that. We have bred her to our A.P. Indy son and the first filly from that cross is in training now. She actually has better feet than the other fillies we've gotten out of this mare by different sires!

I have heard this "A.P. Indy and his feet" thing before and even asked about it on here quite some time ago because I simply don't see it with any of the ones that I have personal experience with. I'm not going to say that there may not be A.P. Indy offspring out there with bad feet, but I will stand up and say that I have personal experience that does not support that claim.

And now, again, I will ask that everyone PLEASE stay on topic and leave the personal jabs out of the forum. To those who derive great pleasure in trading personal back and forth jabs, I implore you to become more familiar with the PM function of this board.

[Intrinsic Worth]

1. how many have you worked with


2. just because all of the what.. 4 you work with, there are more issues in play than just the sire is AP Indy.. that goes for Unbridled song and any other stallion.

AP Indy didn't have feet problems until he retired and went off to stud. Besides a bruise on a foot before the derby, but that is not unsoundness. AP Indy's feet probelm are a man made problem. that is not a genetic problem.

AP Indy throwing ridglings is a genetic issue.

again.. just like I was told in a different thread.. all the points aren't being taken into consideration to just say that AP Indy=feet...

if AP Indy is given a mare that is sound, the odds are dramatically in favor of a sound offspring.

I'm done.

Indy had foot problems most of his career and if you knew anything about horse's feet, chronic bruises are from bad, shellly feet.

[Roguelet]

I will admit that I was not following racing when A. P. Indy was running, and I do not know anyone who was personally involved with his training while he was racing; but I have read articles about A. P. Indy. Articles I have read DO mention a bruise on his foot before the KY Derby, but that's the only mention of foot problems that I, personally, have seen in print. I have seen no information that he had chronic bruises... just the one. And, we all know that foot bruises can come from stepping on a rock or something like that as well.

Now, I'm the first to admit that just because I haven't seen something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist, and since I have a vested interest in A. P. Indy and his offspring, I would welcome the opportunity to read more on this subject. Can anyone provide links to any stories or articles that might expound on any foot problems that A. P. Indy might have had during his racing career?

Thanks!

Here's a link to where this was briefly discussed some time ago:
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... dy&start=0

[sunday_silence]

I've been to Lane's End lots of times and A.P. has never had foot packs on when I've been there. Not saying Intrinsic is making that up, not at all. He uses the equicizer (sp?) and he wears a grazing muzzle, yet he is still too fat. I'm inclined to think that's his biggest problem at this point and it surely affects the feet. He seems to pass that weight problem along to his sons, as well.

[bcassidy]

Rokeby, sorry, I was gone for the weekend. You are correct--- AP Indy would indeed be the top of the list. I don't care for him very much probably because like Storm Cat he has seen the best book of mares in the world and he has a difficult time producing a foal as good as the mares he covers. That's why in my original post I said I wanted to see what DH would do with a better book of mares---does he continue to improve, produce the same or weaken the mares he has covered.
I believe DH has a cl of 1.7, while Unbridled's Song is somewhere in the mid 2s and Last time I checked AP's was above 4. Surely you would expect AP's foals to be at least twice as good as DH's from the mares he has covered and I certainly wouldn't think anybody would think that is true. What do you think Rokeby? all things being equal---would you rather have an AP indy or a Distorted Humor?
In my mind, their is no contest----I would take the DH hands down!
In 2-3 years DH's foals could be through the roof and prices from this years sales will seem very reasonable.

[bdw0617]

AP Indy had a weight problem, as in he was huge which caused access strain on his feet, never a confirmation with his feet problem.

[Cree]

What are you talking about? His current stallion weight problem, has nothing to do with his foot problem when he was 3, racing fit. Huh???

[bdw0617]

he's ALWAYS been big and he is built downhill which makes his feet problems as time goes on worse

[Rokeby Forever]

Hi BCassidy....I happen to agree with you 100% - there's nothing that I don't like about Distorted Humor, especially since he's a sire that's worked his way up the ladder - It's just a shame that so many of his good early sons were gelded. But, as of now, AP Indy is king of the hill - I don't think anyone can dispute that.

[Green Hills]

I'd like to see the "30 different articles" since you're the only one who seems to think Indy is a perfect physical specimen.

This is one of those times where you think you know what you're talking about and you dont. You cant make sweeping comments like this and not expect someone to correct it.

Indy has multiple conformation issues (nothing glaring), his worse being his feet. Hell, he was scratched from the Derby due to lameness.

And for the record, since you brought him up, Unbridled ran 24 times as opposed to Indy's 11, Unbridled's Song ran one more race than Indy.

Everytime I went to see Indy, he was standing in his stall with hoofpacks on his front feet, EVERYTIME!

he's what.... 18 years old

We have a 26 year old who is still sound...now SHE has perfect conformation, oh and a 32 year old gelding who has great feet...

18 is nothing if they are cared for and you can bet that is one stallion who is exceptionally well cared for...

[Green Hills]

he's ALWAYS been big and he is built downhill which makes his feet problems as time goes on worse

uhmmm..."built downhill" IS a conformation fault...though not necessarily a bad one depending on the horse...but it IS a fault.