Forestry at $100k...(right now) Thumbs Up or Thumbs Down.

[FOS]

hi Rok

Dynaformer didn't reach a $5,000 fee until his fifth year at stud. He started off as free to approved mares. Pretty amazing, huh?

Think about some of the following too...amazing again, huh?

Mr Prospector $7,500
Dynaformer $4,000+-
Kris S $1,500+-
Saint Ballado $2,500+-
Stormy Atlantic $4,000+-
Distorted Humor $7,500+-
Elusive Quality $10,000+-

Respectfully

[bdw0617]

His daughters will likely be a source of speed (for the most part). That said, if two-turns at the highest level is the target, and classics threats/contenders is a top priority...Forestry daughters might not be a smart/wise play.

If you're intending to breed for what might be described as today's pinhooker prototype individual...he might be just fine.

The times seem to be changin'...and it appears (to me anyway) that many of the TOP runners today (on the polytrack, cushion track etc artificial surfaces) do NOT have what I might describe as that prototype pinhooker-look

My goal is to breed to race or sell as yearlings. I wont breed for the 2YO market, first, because it takes too long, and second, I don't intend on breeding those types of individuals.

My theory (and this is both untested and somewhat loose) is that speed on the dam side is a good thing, adding stamina with the right sire might be the ticket. As opposed to taking a distance mare and breeding speed. There is plenty of data supporting both sides, of course. If a good "miler" makes the best stallion, a horse that can go the distance should be important. Very interesting indeed. This is the best part of breeding/horse racing!

the way I see it, a mare and her pedigree/family lines are like a good bespoke suit. it's the platform which all else goes around. A good sire and his traits is like adding a patek philippe watch, custom made belt and a new part of newly shined dress shoes. A sire that brings his mares down or that doesn't match is like throwing on a cheapo watch and a pair of dress shoes from wal mart

In other words, you build around the mare, not the sire.

[Rokeby Forever]

Hi FOS,

I think that Danzig was a pretty good early buy in his career, as well. $15,000, was it?

Best,
Rok

[FOS]

hi Rok

Hi FOS,

I think that Danzig was a pretty good early buy in his career, as well. $15,000, was it?

Best,
Rok

$20,000...$80k for a share. He was not an easy sell at the outset (at those numbers).

Happy Thanksgiving.

Respectfully

[Rokeby Forever]

Hi FOS,

Indeed! If Woody Stephens and Claiborne weren't connected at the hip, who knows where Danzig would have stood stud. And Mr Stephens had to use his best sales pitch to get the Hancocks to stand him.

$20,000 at the time was a high fee, but in retrospect, it was peanuts!

Times change, huh FOS? Imagine an undefeated (3 for 3) son of Northern Dancer today? No farm in the country would have turned Danzig down - and he's probably get 150 mares right off the bat, too!

Happy Thanksgiving!

[FOS]

hi Rok

If Woody Stephens and Claiborne weren't connected at the hip, who knows where Danzig would have stood stud. And Mr Stephens had to use his best sales pitch to get the Hancocks to stand him.

Bingo...

...and if I might add, DeKwiatkowski paid (if I recall correctly) $310k for the yearling Northern Dancer/Pas de Nom colt (subsequently named Danzig). That was arguably a good-sized chunk of cash for a colt (sold as a yearling in 1978) that had so little on the page to talk about/refer to (despite being by Northern Dancer).

With that in mind...is it unreasonable to suggest that Woody S might have sensed that if he wanted to keep DeK (with his flamboyant style and deep pockets) as a client, he might have to find a farm (and not just any farm) that would stand the undefeated (although never stakes tested) Danzig...with his problematic (maybe slab fracture, if I recall correctly) knee. Voila...Woody apparently convinced Claiborne (who he was all but connected at the hip with, as you indicated) to stand the colt.

Whatever Woody's intentions might (or might not) have been...it's (for all intents and purposes) likely moot. Why? Because Danzig (as we know) proved to be quite a VERY Special sire.

Best

Respectfully

[Rokeby Forever]

Hi FOS,

That's a very good point. And, perhaps, the Hancocks may have figured that Mr DeK might well purchase some expensive Claiborne stock as a reward.

When Ogden Phipps named his Danzig-Navsup colt Polish Navy, Mr DeK said it was the most flattering thing in racing ever done for him. Of course, Mr Phipps was also connected to Claiborne - by the other hip....perhaps someone at Claiborne recommended the name? Mr Phipps was a Goliath as a breeder, but he was never one to come up with clever names.

Between Danzig, Conquistador Cielo, and De La Rose, ol' Woody didn't do too badly for Mr DeK...it's interesting how Danzig got the ball rolling for the two of them. You gave me something to think about, FOS. Thank you!

Best,
Rok

[FOS]

hi dray33...hi guys

My goal is to breed to race or sell as yearlings. I wont breed for the 2YO market, first, because it takes too long, and second, I don't intend on breeding those types of individuals.

Hypothetical...if the decision was made tomorrow, to retire dray33's Forestry filly (Perfectly Natural) and send her to the breeding shed in 2008...which stallions (at this time) would likely be on your short list (for her)?

Respectfullly

[dray33]

Dont think I havent thought about that FOS, and thanks for asking. I usually come to the board for help when the close possibility is there, for fear of running off the valuable help I get here!

Anyway, I have done some initial thought about this. Here's the early thoughts: First, I havent a clue who Forestry, or Storm Cat crosses well with on the female side, so I did some mixes that I thought had a shot:

UNBRIDLED'S SONG: But the soundness issues would keep me up all night.
RAHY: Just because I love him. He seems to throw soundness.
EL PRADO: Probably my top choice.
COZZENE: Hope he's around
DYNAFORMER: Expensive... wonder if she'll have black type worthiness one day.
PERFECT SOUL: I think he will be special. Secretariat heavy?
WAR CHANT: Interesting
SUCCESSFUL APPEAL
CANDY RIDE: Rasmussen inbreeding?

Still loose. Thoughts FOS?

[FOS]

hi dray33

...Here's the early thoughts: First, I havent a clue who Forestry, or Storm Cat crosses well with on the female side, so I did some mixes that I thought had a shot:

UNBRIDLED'S SONG: But the soundness issues would keep me up all night.
RAHY: Just because I love him. He seems to throw soundness.
EL PRADO: Probably my top choice.
COZZENE: Hope he's around
DYNAFORMER: Expensive... wonder if she'll have black type worthiness one day.
PERFECT SOUL: I think he will be special. Secretariat heavy?
WAR CHANT: Interesting
SUCCESSFUL APPEAL
CANDY RIDE: Rasmussen inbreeding?

Still loose. Thoughts FOS?

I might leave all but a few that you've indicted (above) on a list (of mine).

For starteres...Perfect Soul would be one that I'd likely skip over (at least for now). He might prove to be a successful sire, but (as far as your filly Perfectly Natural is concerned) I might let him show me something (as a racehorse sire) before I'd use him.

One (on your list) that does VERY little for me is War Chant (who started at $75,000). He had opportunities that not a whole lot of stallions get, and (to my way of thinking) he has not performed up to his opportunities. Bottom line (All Things Considered), I could NOT recommend him. Maybe he'll turn things around, but (based on what I've seen) I'd put my money elsewhere.

One sire that might be worth a close look is Cherokee Run. A champion sprinter himself, he can certainly get a genuine Top quality racehorse (examples: champion Chilukki [$1.2mil+]...Zanjero [$1.2mil+ and still in action]...During [$820k+ and at stud]...Kafwain [$700k+ and at stud] etc etc etc) and is on the verge of adding another champion (by the name of War Pass) to his sire resume.

Interestingly...your filly Perfectly Natural's 1st dam is by Mr Prospector, the sire of War Pass's 1st dam.

Continuing that thought...and another tidbit worth consideration (at least to my way of thinlking) is that Cherokee Run's son Kafwain (first 2-yo crop racing this year) sired Massive Drama, the winner of yesterday's (Nov 22) Hollywood Preview Stakes-G3. Why is that interesting? Massive Drama is out of a mare by Slewacide (a son of Seattle Slew)...and Seattle Slew is the 2nd dam's sire of Perfectly Natural. Hmmm.

Just some food for thought.

Respectfully

[dray33]

Massive Drama won an impressive maiden race at Aqueduct if I am not mistaken. I know this because my horse, UNIQUE TALE, ran third in his first start against the horse that came in second in Massive Dramas maiden. I forget the horses name, he went off as BIG CHALK (deservedly) and got caught by ... (begins with an "A"). Anyway, UNIQUE got an 81 beyer, and according to Kimmel, he will LOVE added distance. I think we might have a good one here (I only have a third of him). Nice to see MD won big.

[dray33]

One sire that might be worth a close look is Cherokee Run. A champion sprinter himself, he can certainly get a genuine Top quality racehorse (examples: champion Chilukki [$1.2mil+]...Zanjero [$1.2mil+ and still in action]...During [$820k+ and at stud]...Kafwain [$700k+ and at stud] etc etc etc) and is on the verge of adding another champion (by the name of War Pass) to his sire resume.

Interestingly...your filly Perfectly Natural's 1st dam is by Mr Prospector, the sire of War Pass's 1st dam.

Continuing that thought...and another tidbit worth consideration (at least to my way of thinlking) is that Cherokee Run's son Kafwain (first 2-yo crop racing this year) sired Massive Drama, the winner of yesterday's (Nov 22) Hollywood Preview Stakes-G3. Why is that interesting? Massive Drama is out of a mare by Slewacide (a son of Seattle Slew)...and Seattle Slew is the 2nd dam's sire of Perfectly Natural. Hmmm.

Just some food for thought.

Respectfully

Oooooooh. I like your thinking. Cherokee Run's a keeper.