Commercial Stallions under $15K

[Sock Monkey]

If Congaree's conformation is poor then how come he had 25 starts with 12 wins? He has 3 stakes winners already in his first crop. The trouble with "commercial" breeders and buyers is that they are buyers of BS and would not know a good horse if they fell over one. They are stupid enough to judge a stallion by his stud fee. They listen to bloodstock advisers who usually have something to gain by picking out certain horses who may not be able to stay sound long enough to race.

I think most of us are aware that horses horses with conformation faults can still run. But - and this is they key to commercial appeal - when you as the buyer have over 5k yearlings to pick from, why not do everything you can to stack the deck in your favor?

What do you mean by bloodstock advisers having something to gain by picking out horses who may not make it to the races? That doesn't make much sense.

[soundfast]

It makes sense when you consider that some have gotten money from both buyers and sellers and maybe stallion owners too. Jess Jackson sued people who took money from him and got money from sellers also. Some consider it a conflict of interest but it was and probably is still happening. Try advising some people to breed to a stallion with a reasonable stud fee that is a better match than one with $100K or higher fee and they will complain because they have been brain washed into believing that the high fee stallion is the better horse when he isn't. City Zip's fee may go up next year so he may not be $15K. His average earnings per runner are already above $60K and for his oldest born in 03 the average is over $75K. He has 73% winners to runners 75% runners to foals and 19% black type to runners. His 2 year old colts average sale price has gone up every year $47,333 in 05 in 08 $99,087. Congaree's 2 year old colts averaged $140,971. in 08 and he has 18% black type to runners so far. Some people do not know what good conformation is and find fault with horses that are "correct" and praise the horse who is not. If a horse is poorly made he will not stay sound. Some people say every horse they stand or own or are selling is "correct." If it was someone elses and competing with theirs they would find fault with it.

[AscotStud]

That's the point I was trying to convey with both Half Ours and Mr. S. You can't look at number or starts or a press release about an injury and come away with the whole story.

Yes but these gems had over 3 years to not string more than 2 races together. The horse we stand that you chose to criticize stand for a fraction that they do, was classic placed twice and the only reason he didn't run at 4 was because he was syndicated for more than what he would have made winning a $1 million dollar race.

I didn't say Congaree was correct, I said he was a hell of a race horse and should breed twice the mares every unsound horse with a decent pedigree should breed.

What do you mean by bloodstock advisers having something to gain by picking out horses who may not make it to the races? That doesn't make much sense.

They make their money on selling the season, the foal does not matter to them, they sold the season and a year or two later these agents will be pushing someone else and talking crap about the horse they sold a year or two earlier.

The one thing you do have right ASB is that there really is no commercial stallion in this price range, though there should be.

[geowarrior]

I have to admit that I was a bit surprised to see Congaree attract so many mares and then do so well as a freshman sire. Given that Arazi, his sire had equally bad knees I thought the obvious heredity link would be made and people would be put off.

However, Congaree looks wonderful in pictures if you cut him off at the knees - a good physical isn't all about knees. Also his knees don't seem to have prevented him from racing many times and winning much money. Perhaps with such an obvious conformation fault those who bred to him were particularly careful to choose mares that wouldn't accentuate the 'Congaree knee'. I did hear that some of his offspring are not as crooked around the knee as he his.

But there's no arguing - he's doing not badly as a freshman sire and better than some that were predicted to do well - like that Smarty whatever? And Strong Hope? The question is - are these precocious Congaree juveniles going to go on and replicate his durability, or is their precociousness a throwback to Arazi and are they going to flame out in their three year old years?

I hope not. I like him and would like to see him do well.

[erhrdt3]

Has anyone bred their mares to the gorgeous and fast Mayakovsky in New York? If so, are you pleased with the outcome?

Thank you