Genetic question (SUBJECTIVE)
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xfactor fan
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summerhorse
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I saw a pic. of Discovery and he had a hind end very much like Secretariat and the others. Perhaps it was due to recessive genes from D. via BR and on the bottom from Princequillo!
Secretariat had the huge heart which is carried on the X chromosome. The huge heart in itself does not a champion make but it sure gives him a powerful motor to start with! This is why Secretariat is perceived as a "failure" as a sire when in fact he was a tremendous broodmare sire and if not for him no AP Indy or Storm Cat. Imagine how the TB world would look now without them! His daughters (half of them) inherited the X, his sons did not.
And if anyone in the world has a failure like that with a $40,000 stud fee they don't want they can send him right here!
I do not believe Secretariat was a steroid baby. His just stamped those looks on his foals too well. I can pick out one with Secretariat 2 or 3 generations back because they have the "look". Besides that if he was on steroids wouldn't all the others be on them too? Did Riva Ridge look like he was on steroids? And he probably could have used them in the summer/fall of his 3 yo year! I know steroids were used back then but they were far more popular in the stock horse show ring (and probably races). I think steroid use did take off from there but when you have a horse like Secretariat, you don't NEED steroids.
It was like the accusation of drugging Man O' War. MOW was a fireball, almost a hellion naturally, imagine if they hopped him up? He might have imploded or killed someone at the least.
What Secretariat needed was hard work to keep those muscles from getting flabby and nowadays he'd NEVER get that much work because he might get hurt or beat or something.
Secretariat had the huge heart which is carried on the X chromosome. The huge heart in itself does not a champion make but it sure gives him a powerful motor to start with! This is why Secretariat is perceived as a "failure" as a sire when in fact he was a tremendous broodmare sire and if not for him no AP Indy or Storm Cat. Imagine how the TB world would look now without them! His daughters (half of them) inherited the X, his sons did not.
And if anyone in the world has a failure like that with a $40,000 stud fee they don't want they can send him right here!
I do not believe Secretariat was a steroid baby. His just stamped those looks on his foals too well. I can pick out one with Secretariat 2 or 3 generations back because they have the "look". Besides that if he was on steroids wouldn't all the others be on them too? Did Riva Ridge look like he was on steroids? And he probably could have used them in the summer/fall of his 3 yo year! I know steroids were used back then but they were far more popular in the stock horse show ring (and probably races). I think steroid use did take off from there but when you have a horse like Secretariat, you don't NEED steroids.
It was like the accusation of drugging Man O' War. MOW was a fireball, almost a hellion naturally, imagine if they hopped him up? He might have imploded or killed someone at the least.
What Secretariat needed was hard work to keep those muscles from getting flabby and nowadays he'd NEVER get that much work because he might get hurt or beat or something.
Every mighty oak was once an acorn that stood its ground.
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xfactor fan
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Nice post, just one minor correction. All of Secretariat's daughters got his X. He was YX male, sons got the Y, fillies the X (the only one he could give them) However due to X chromosome inactivation only half his daughters would express the X. This is assuming that the heart is a either or situation, not a mosaic.
I'm pretty sure Secretariat wasn't a steroid baby too.
I'm pretty sure Secretariat wasn't a steroid baby too.
Good lord. Now they want to tell you the grandson of Hastings was hopped up? The son of Fair Play? Oh, please. They were lucky to get in and out of Hasting's stall alive. He personified loonytune. Fair Play wasn't quite as bad, but you still couldn't turn your back on him. They were actually breeding Fair Play to particularly calm mares to keep his get on the ground. You could at least get close enough to saddle Man O'War.
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Shammy Davis
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Maybe SECRETARIAT was not on steroids. Maybe he was. I've looked high and low for information on the autopsy but little information is available.
It appears that most of the autopsy time was spent measuring and making observations about his organs, particularly the heart.
Secretariat was known in life as a horse with a large "heart." However, before his burial, he was necropsied at the University of Kentucky. Dr. Thomas Swerczek, the veterinarian who performed the necropsy, claims that he found that Secretariat's heart was the largest he had ever seen in a horse—approximately twice the size of a normal horse's heart. Dr. Swerczek states in correspondence:
"Certainly, after performing autopsies on several thousand thoroughbred horses, including mares and stallions, no other horse came close to Secretariat’s heart size. The second largest heart I found was the heart of Sham, who actually broke the Kentucky derby record, but still lost to Secretariat. Sham’s heart weighed 19 pounds. The third largest heart I found was stallion Key to the Mint, which was 16 pounds. The majority of all others were smaller, in the range of 10 to 12 pounds. Bold Ruler, the sire of Secretariat had an average size heart. The heart size seemingly is inherited from the female side of the pedigree. When I performed the autopsy on Secretariat, which was necessary because of insurance and we needed to determine the cause of the laminitis, the cause of destruction, I did a cosmetic autopsy. The reason being I did not want to dismantle such a remarkable specimen and the farm personnel and handlers were present to immediately collect all organs in large plastic bags which were immediately returned to the farm to be buried with the body. Normally, with other horses we can keep all organs and the body for further study, or to preserve large specimens, like the heart, but I was not allowed to do this with Secretariat. For this reason, all specimens were immediately collected and returned to the farm, and I did not get a chance to weigh the heart. However, by comparing it to numerous other hearts I got actual weights on, I am certain the weight was between 21 to 22 pounds. So I considered the heart weight officially as 21 pounds. The heart was in perfect shape, not diseased in any way, but just considerably larger than any other horses I autopsied."
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Secretariat
It appears that no blood or tissue samples were evaluated. I have searched the www and found nothing of significance beyond this. There is evidence to show that steriods were being used in horseracing as early as the 1950's. I have read a number of articles and one book that have eluded to steroids and SECRETARIAT. Everyone has an opinion on this. I don't think it is such an unreasonable assumption. If proven wrong, I would not be unhappy either.
It appears that most of the autopsy time was spent measuring and making observations about his organs, particularly the heart.
Secretariat was known in life as a horse with a large "heart." However, before his burial, he was necropsied at the University of Kentucky. Dr. Thomas Swerczek, the veterinarian who performed the necropsy, claims that he found that Secretariat's heart was the largest he had ever seen in a horse—approximately twice the size of a normal horse's heart. Dr. Swerczek states in correspondence:
"Certainly, after performing autopsies on several thousand thoroughbred horses, including mares and stallions, no other horse came close to Secretariat’s heart size. The second largest heart I found was the heart of Sham, who actually broke the Kentucky derby record, but still lost to Secretariat. Sham’s heart weighed 19 pounds. The third largest heart I found was stallion Key to the Mint, which was 16 pounds. The majority of all others were smaller, in the range of 10 to 12 pounds. Bold Ruler, the sire of Secretariat had an average size heart. The heart size seemingly is inherited from the female side of the pedigree. When I performed the autopsy on Secretariat, which was necessary because of insurance and we needed to determine the cause of the laminitis, the cause of destruction, I did a cosmetic autopsy. The reason being I did not want to dismantle such a remarkable specimen and the farm personnel and handlers were present to immediately collect all organs in large plastic bags which were immediately returned to the farm to be buried with the body. Normally, with other horses we can keep all organs and the body for further study, or to preserve large specimens, like the heart, but I was not allowed to do this with Secretariat. For this reason, all specimens were immediately collected and returned to the farm, and I did not get a chance to weigh the heart. However, by comparing it to numerous other hearts I got actual weights on, I am certain the weight was between 21 to 22 pounds. So I considered the heart weight officially as 21 pounds. The heart was in perfect shape, not diseased in any way, but just considerably larger than any other horses I autopsied."
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Secretariat
It appears that no blood or tissue samples were evaluated. I have searched the www and found nothing of significance beyond this. There is evidence to show that steriods were being used in horseracing as early as the 1950's. I have read a number of articles and one book that have eluded to steroids and SECRETARIAT. Everyone has an opinion on this. I don't think it is such an unreasonable assumption. If proven wrong, I would not be unhappy either.
ElPrado wrote:Good lord. Now they want to tell you the grandson of Hastings was hopped up? The son of Fair Play? Oh, please. They were lucky to get in and out of Hasting's stall alive. He personified loonytune. Fair Play wasn't quite as bad, but you still couldn't turn your back on him. They were actually breeding Fair Play to particularly calm mares to keep his get on the ground. You could at least get close enough to saddle Man O'War.
I was going to say the same thing. The Hastings/Fair Plays were notorious for their bad behavior. I believe that MOW and Discovery were particularly mellow representatives of the line. Discovery's sire, Display, a son of Fair Play, was ruled off the track at one point for his bad behavior IIRC. War Admiral, MOW's best son, was a terror.
"you cannot be brilliant if you cannot run" -- bdw0617
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