New sons of AP Indy at stud in 2007

[geowarrior]

Well, Roguelet, remember that you're wanting to try a mare by Wolf Power, so I only have information on half of the pedigree. There could be something on the dam's side of the mare in question that would make a difference.

[madelyn]

I had a really lovely mare last year named Scenery, by Distant View out of Valleta M by Wolf Power. She might have been a good date for Indy Mood.. alas she is in Colorado now and being bred to Cats and Dogs.

[griff]

Any thoughts on Indy Mood & Cryptoclearance or IndyMood and Broad Brush?/

griff

[geowarrior]

Griff said:

Any thoughts on Indy Mood & Cryptoclearance or IndyMood and Broad Brush?

Of the two suggestions Cryptoclearance is by far the more promising. Although A.P. Indy over Cryptoclearance has not produced any graded stakes winners, A.P. Indy over Fappiano has an excellent vgs on Goldmine of 5.55. A.P. Indy over Broad Brush has not produced any graded stakes winners, and A.P. Indy over Ack Ack has produced only two.

It seems the Mr. P. 'nick' with A.P. Indy is improved when the Mr. P. conduit is Fappiano.[/quote]

[Roguelet]

Geo, forgive me if you've already said this somewhere, but does that system tell you how much something has been tried? Just wondering about the Broad Brush/Ack Ack with A.P. Indy, wonder how often it's been done...

Sounds like the Cryptoclearance mare gets to take advantage of the A.P. Indy - Mr. P nick and even go one better with Fappiano... I'll have to keep the Fappiano thing in mind; I didn't know about that.

[griff]

Wow! A 5.55 Goldmine for A.P. Indy over Fappiano would indeed be awsome if there is a significant data base..

The Cryyptoclearance mare iIhave in mind for Indy Mood is out of a Silver Buck mare. is there any additional benefit with that link to Buckpasser?

griff

[hpkingjr]

Roguelet said"

I think bringing in more In Reality is a good thing; I have a couple of mares that I got specifically to do just that.

I agree that inbreeding In Reality is a good thing. In checking the G1 Goldmine for a list of inbred In Reality graded stakes winners, and there are ten, each and every one was a sex balanced In Reality inbreeding. Keep this in mind as you secure mares for Indy Mood. Not to say that a son- son or daughter-daughter won't work, just that it has not so far.

[geowarrior]

Geo, forgive me if you've already said this somewhere, but does that system tell you how much something has been tried? Just wondering about the Broad Brush/Ack Ack with A.P. Indy, wonder how often it's been done...

To my knowledge there is no data input to Goldmine that evaluates the number of GSW's in comparison to the times a particular cross has been tried. The 'norm' against which the vgs is calculated is a theoretical statistical one based on the number of gsw's born vs. the number observed and the number expected. For example to take the Fappiano thing even further - there are two gsw's with A.P. Indy over Quiet American, but the statistically calculated expected number is 0.2 in the U.S. so Quiet American ends up with a vgs of over 8. This is a sample too small for me, but it's something I'd keep in mind. I would think, given that Broad Brush and A.P. Indy are both top sires who have been around for a long long time, and Ack Ack is a historical sire appearing in many pedigrees, that the cross has been tried at some point. It's certainly one that would come into my mind if I was approaching the topic cold. However I have no idea how many times it might have been tried.

The Cryyptoclearance mare iIhave in mind for Indy Mood is out of a Silver Buck mare. is there any additional benefit with that link to Buckpasser?

Yes, Griff, in addition to the Fappiano 'nick' the A.P. Indy over Buckpasser would have a vgs of just over 1.5, so having the Buckpasser in there would be a distinct advantage. The A.P. Indy over Cryptoclearance cross itself hasn't produced any gsw's but just going through the list, several Fappiano sons have had success in this cross, so I'd still consider Cryptoclearance better than Broad Brush which was the focus of your original question.

In response to both questions, Goldmine doesn't have what I would call a large statistical sample for any of it's 'nicks'. Like everything else, it's a tool of suggestion, not certainty. That being said, it does help to identify patterns that may be worth exploring. For example Rare Brick doesn't have any graded stakes winners, but does have a couple of winners with Indy Mood, so one might conclude that the Mr. P. nick, already suggested by Goldmine, is manifesting itself here in non-graded winners, and give one a bit more confidence in trying a Mr. P. cross with Indy Mood.

I myself would also always look at the mare conduit profile for any hypo mating as well as all the other intangibles.[/quote]

[Roguelet]

Madelyn: I once almost purchased Valleta M herself! Small world... Now, had I done that, I might know if my Wolf Power hunch was a good one or not by now...

hpkingjr: Both of the mares in question have In Reality straight up the sire line, so their foals by Indy Mood would have In Reality sex balanced. Sounds great to me!

Geo: I'm starting to feel guilty... you're doing more work evaluating Indy than I am! Perhaps I should put you on the payroll...

[Sam]

Geo: I'm starting to feel guilty... you're doing more work evaluating Indy than I am! Perhaps I should put you on the payroll...

Nah... just comp him a breeding.

I have just the mare

You Too

[geowarrior]

Geo: I'm starting to feel guilty... you're doing more work evaluating Indy than I am! Perhaps I should put you on the payroll...

Nah... just comp him a breeding

Thanks all. Actually Roguelet, I'm having fun procrastinating things I should be doing. I've had Goldmine for a while but didn't really have a project that caught my interest till the questions about Indy Mood.

And Sam, Geo is in fact a she. I don't have a mare, but if you do....

Actually I hypomated You Too with Indy Mood. Again the stamina mare conduit profile is good, but I'd like to see more speed. Other aspects look good to me though. On the plus side, you also get Buckpasser over Hail To Reason, which I haven't looked into but I think Rokeby was mentioning as a good cross.

[Sam]

And Sam, Geo is in fact a she.

D'OH!!... sorry.

I don't have a mare, but if you do....

Actually I hypomated You Too with Indy Mood. Again the stamina mare conduit profile is good, but I'd like to see more speed. Other aspects look good to me though. On the plus side, you also get Buckpasser over Hail To Reason, which I haven't looked into but I think Rokeby was mentioning as a good cross.

Despite the profile, the immediate family is all sprinters. You Too just won a 6f starters allowance at Fonner today. Half sibling to 3 stakes horses with AWDs under 7 furlongs (Misty Harbor by Danzig Connection -- 6.5, Exact by Twining -- 6.08, Leading Lioness by Lion Cavern -- 5.87). The other siblings are all in the mid 6 range. Only one is at 7.

Dam's a half to a bunch of stakes winners, but most of them were in Mexico and have AWDs averaging about 8f.

[geowarrior]

Interesting, Sam, and reflects exactly what I was saying about intangibles. Sounds like a good match, and congrats on the result for You Too!

[Sam]

Interesting, Sam, and reflects exactly what I was saying about intangibles. Sounds like a good match, and congrats on the result for You Too!

You And I is 'my' sireline, but not my sire of choice. She ran against a Kissin Kris baby and caught my eye because she's a Kris S. sire over a Relaunch mare. Too bad You Too's not grey, I probably could have talked Rogue into sending a truck for her

My mare is still in the clutches of a true prick in need of a serious ass beating.

eta

Correction: You Too won a start yesterday at Oaklawn. Oaklawn race 1

[griff]

Geowarrior

If you need addition projects I'd appreciate your comments on:

Indy Mood X Adamandia's Girl by Cryptoclearance

and

Indy Mood X Hot Concern by Concern..

griff