Big Brown to Three Chimneys

[FOS]

hi Coaltown...hi all

War Chant, Point Given and Rahy are all currently in the top 50 leading sires for 2008.

That's fine...but how about some perspective.

War Chant's stud fee upon his retirement to Three Chimneys (just 7 years ago, in 2001) was $75,000. His advertised stud fee for 2008 is $20,000. Ouch !!!

Point Given's stud fee upon his retirement to Three Chimneys (just 6 years ago, in 2002) was $125,000. Shares were offered at $1mil each. PG's advertised stud fee for 2008 is $15,000. Yikes !!!

As written previously...Slew O'Gold...Wild Again and Rahy did too start their stud careers at 3C (22 and 18 years ago respectively), but a look at more recent additions (that too, BEGAN their careers at stud at 3C) might shed some light, supply some valuable insight/perspective, plus offer some food for thought re stallion choices the farm has committed to.

Included among stallions whose stud careers BEGAN at Three Chimneys are...Atticus...Albert the Great...Fly So Free...Miesque's Son...Joyeaux Danseur...Silver Charm...Point Given...War Chant...Sky Mesa and Smarty Jones. As I recall...French Deputy started at Three Chimneys also, but was shuffled off to Japan pretty darn quickly; oh well.

To each his own.

Respectfully.

[Coaltown]

whoops. I meant War Chant's AEI is 1.64, not 1.36.

[Coaltown]

I'll call you on that. Name the mare booked thru the farm at $10,5k and I'll check with my contact at TCF to confirm it. It's just awful hard to believe.

[Danzig]

Coaltown - Relative to the quality of mares he has been bred to, War Chant's progeny have been less than stellar...A fact that deeply disappoints me since I had such high hopes for him when he began his stallion duties.

What concerns me most now is, as his fee continues to plummet, so will the quality of mares bred to him. Sadly, I suspect that after his last foal has left the track, he will be remebered as a less than average sire. Hopefully though, his legacy will live on as an above average broodmare sire...especially in light of the quality mares he was bred to during his first three seasons.

[jagger]

Are you addressing me, Coaltown?

[Danzig]

Coaltown - Have your contact check his contracts and give me the names of the mares booked for $10,500 and under. I use plural since I know of two other individuals who had also booked mares in that price range.

[Coaltown]

Danzig - that was a trick question because I'd just talked with the person at TCF who handles the applications, and she confirmed that no season sold thru TCF was sold for less than $15k. Again, it must have been a shareholder season sold privately. She would like to know the name of the mares if you're going to keep insisting on it, because something just doesn't smell right.

[jagger]

I won't be giving any names but I know, for sure, that at least one fool was parted from their money when they took their mare to a TC stallion whose stud fee was greater than the cost of the mare. I think the acceptable ratio of mare value to stud fee is somewhere between 20% to 30%. Recommending a stallion whose stud fee is greater than the value of the mare seems.........strange..at best.

[Danzig]

Coaltown - You must be referring to Lori Chappell, but since I know for a fact that Lori would lose her job for disclosing said information, I think you are full of shit...Nonetheless, I'll ask Case to look into it.

You really should try John Hamilton, but I also know he wouldn't divuldge such information either.

[Coaltown]

I'll stand by my contact as an utterly verifiable and truthful source. She insists there have been no 2008 seasons sold at that price thru the farm.

If I recall the farm went public offering specially discounted 2007 Southern Hemisphere seasons which might have been $10k, but that's not this year's farm price. And that was public knowledge, not secret deals.

[Mali]

Actually, whether this addresses the argument or not, we booked a mare to Rahy for much less than he's advertised for. And I dealt directly with 3c.

And as far as 3c being a great operation, they certainly are, but I can also tell you someone at the farm tried to convince a friend of mine to spend 30k on Sky Mesa for a mare he just claimed for 2.5k. That left a slightly bad taste in my mouth.

[jagger]

Don't know if you read my post above, Mali, but that is exactly what I am talking about. A 2.5k mare to a 30k stallion? That is worse than the one that I am aware of and it did leave a bad taste in my mouth as well.

[Danzig]

Mali - The discount by TC to Rahy has made him a good commercial play this year. I'm afraid to quote the fee since I am afraid that the wrath of the TC Marketing Department, i.e. Coaltown, may get all worked up again.

[jagger]

I see that Sky Mesa is down to 15k. I think at one time he was 40K. I think they must have had trouble filling his book.

[hpkingjr]

hi Coaltown...hi all

War Chant, Point Given and Rahy are all currently in the top 50 leading sires for 2008.

That's fine...but how about some perspective.

War Chant's stud fee upon his retirement to Three Chimneys (just 7 years ago, in 2001) was $75,000. His advertised stud fee for 2008 is $20,000. Ouch !!!

Point Given's stud fee upon his retirement to Three Chimneys (just 6 years ago, in 2002) was $125,000. Shares were offered at $1mil each. PG's advertised stud fee for 2008 is $15,000. Yikes !!!

Let's look at the Point's recent sales performance and ask yourself how well the breeders that used him fared.
2008 results:

POINT GIVEN, 98, Thunder Gulch—Turko's Turn, by Turkoman
Yearlings: 53 reg fls., 6 off., 6 sold, $10,750 avg. (51.08), XSF 0.22, $8,750 med. (45.08), 1 c. $25,000, 5 f. $7,900 avg., [lifetime avg: 157 sold, $70,840]
(Was this on a $35,000 stud fee, I can't remember?)

Two-year-olds: 54 reg fls., 7 off., 6 sold, $54,367 avg. (60.15), XSF 1.09, $22,500 med. (39.36), 3 c. $95,000 avg., 3 f. $13,733 avg., [lifetime avg: 37 sold, $113,259]
(I think this stud fee was around $60,000)

Covering Sire: 61 mares bred, 4 off., 3 sold, $14,833 avg. (54.10), XSF 0.99, $15,000 med. (42.06), [lifetime avg: 65 sold, $167,000]

90% drop in value from his start

(Now if you buy a mare in foal to him we'll give you the mare and discount the stud fee)

Point Given
2007 Auction Results
POINT GIVEN, 98, Thunder Gulch—Turko's Turn, by Turkoman
Weanlings: 44 reg fls., 7 off., 7 sold, $13,557 avg. (46.55), XSF 0.27, $6,700 med. (18.72), 4 c. $18,000 avg., 3 f. $7,633 avg., [lifetime avg: 42 sold, $64,581]
(30,000.00 fee?)
Yearlings: 54 reg fls., 32 off., 31 sold, $28,919 avg. (62.88), XSF 0.58, $22,000 med. (63.18), 16 c. $31,844 avg., 15 f. $25,800 avg., [lifetime avg: 156 sold, $71,246]

(60,000.00 Fee?)

Granted he has had a few very very nice horses that have won about 75% of his annual earnings but the rest either don't race or don't win.
If 3C continues their pattern he will be standing for $5,000.00 in 2010.