Name most improbable stallion y/can find in a 21st cent. ped

[Heidilady]

Allegedly, Assault ( http://www.pedigreequery.com/assault )
was “sterile”, but it’s a fact that he sired (at least) two Quarter Horses.
These were BABY FACE RITA ( http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/baby+face+rita )
and POMADA ( http://www.allbreedpedigree.com/pomada )

Provided that he was not 100% percent sterile, I have always wondered if
he really didn’t sire a Thoroughbred at all. Perhaps he sired a Thoroughbred and the result was so weak or ugly that they didn’t registered the product. I wonder….

He sired those foals by being turned out with QH mares I believe. If that was indeed the case I'm gonna guess he would've maybe done so given the same opportunity with TB mares. They carefully engineer those sessions in the shed and turning them out for Mother Nature to take its course might be seen as an unacceptable risk either to him or to the mare. Say the TB mares are hotter and one kicks him out in the pasture, no telling what could happen. If he already seemed to have low fertility, I wonder if they thought it wasn't worth going beyond a certain point, or maybe they called it a day sooner than they would today a la the efforts with War Emblem. Technology's improved.

[Jorge]

Makes one wonder about a rumor about the birth circumstances of a nineteen-thirty-something very important Classic race horse who later became a well known sire in another country...

[xfactor fan]

Who's the horse in question?

[Jorge]

The case was already mentioned here as a longtime rumor. Apparently, the mare didn't want to be bred directly by the sire. Hmmm, since its a rumor, let's just give a hint.

http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... 98&start=0

[Jorge]

Do you remember JOHNS JOY, NEVER SAY DIE and THINKING CAP.
Well, here is a value combo. Take a look:

http://www.pedigreequery.com/fast+wolf

[Jorge]

from Silky Sullivan (Chestnut H 1955)

http://www.pedigreequery.com/fresal2

[Touchy]

BESSUS from Brown Bess.
Can be found in Herbager.
I have not found it elsewhere.

[Jorge]

BESSUS from Brown Bess.
Can be found in Herbager.
I have not found it elsewhere.

You are right, cannot find her elsewhere:

01. HERBAGER http://www.pedigreequery.com/herbager

02. (then click Herbager’s second broodmare sire)
FIRDAUSSI (1929) http://www.pedigreequery.com/firdaussi

03. (then click Firdaussi fourth dam)
FLYING BESSIE (1876) http://www.pedigreequery.com/flying+bessie

04. (then click for Flying Bessie’s fifth removed and there you will find)
BROWN BESS (1844) http://www.pedigreequery.com/brown+bess

[Touchy]

Dear Jorge,

Nice to get your reply, proves that we are not all standing on our heads "Down Under" in Australia.

Cheers

[Touchy]

Jorge, not trying to steal your thunder, but I have one for you.

This stallion was the broodmare sire of the dam of perhaps the greatest racehorse to race in the last century in Australia.
Also appears in the female tail of the best sprinter/miler to have raced in NZ, Aust, Hong Kong, in the last 20 years. This mare could stretch out to 10 furlongs as was proved by her winning 2 Cox Plates.
He can now only be found in the one family line.
Yet he was from a VERY important mare, whose progeny can be found in most pedigrees, the likes of Natalma, Sir Ivor, Ribot, Buckpasser etc.

[kimberley mine]

Easy as pie.

Pilgrim's Progress, half-brother to the mare Canterbury Pilgrim.

Here's one for you. A brother to Pilgrim's Progress, who never sired any sons of note, sired a daughter who is the ancestress of a good South African mare line, one that produced a Summer Cup winner in the early part of the last decade, and before that produced the best racehorse in that country before the apartheid government fell (hint: NOT my namesake ).

Along the way, one of the great-granddaughters of that mare was mated to a full brother of a VERY prominent sire (and Arc-winning racehorse) of Boussac breeding.

That full brother (the Arc winner) is found in the pedigree of the likes of AP Indy, Centaine, and another horse of the same name as the Summer Cup winner mentioned earlier.

Who is the Summer Cup winner, who are the full brothers, who is the multiple Gr-1 winning stallion presently at stud in North America related to the Summer Cup winner, and who is the other brother to Pilgrim's Progress found in the pedigree of that stallion (but not the Summer Cup winner)?

[Touchy]

Hi Kimberly Mine,

I do not know much about South African Breeding, however the Arc winner would be Djebel. His brother was Djask, who went to South Africa. His other brothers apart from Emperator were exported to USA and Argentina.
There was a very good sire by Djebel's son Djebe called Joy ex Perfume (if I recall correctly), that went to South Africa as well. Joy was a half of Marco Polo, who went to New Zealand and sired Polo Prince that won the 1964 Melbourne Cup.

As to the Summer Cup, is that one held in South Africa of the one at Randwick in December?

As to those in the pedigree of A.P. Indy etc, I would say that it is the son of Djebel, called My Babu, who produced Missy Baba # 3l.

If I am wrong, please inform, as I am never too old to learn.

This is my first foray into this discussion group. I am a very good friend of Bendor, who is also a member of this group.

I have all of the Australian Studbooks, and am always happy to assist with research.

Cheers
Touchy.
P.S. Private email address given when requested.

[kimberley mine]

Hi Touchy,

Hope you have your winter woolies on, the internet says it's freezing where you are!

The full brothers were indeed Djebel and Djask, and it is the Gommagomma Summer Cup held at Randwick.

The best racehorse in the Old South Africa was a grey by name of Wolf Power, who was imported to stand stud in the USA after running over the competition there. His 3rd dam, Alarmist, was by Djask, and his 6th dam, Miss Jeddah, was by Jeddah, by Janissary out of Pilgrimage.

Wolf Power never sired anybody close to his racing ability, but he did sire a number of very, very tough, sound horses who have produced tough, sound horses. Among them was a mare named Ask Anita, who produced the multiple Gr-1 winning and now Gr-1 producing stallion Milwaukee Brew, at stud in Canada.

Wolf Power's sire, Flirting Around, traces back twice to a horse named Loved One, by See Saw out of Pilgrimage.

Best to you, and now off to work.

[Touchy]

Hi Kimberly Mine.

Jeddah is also in the pedigree of Danzig, through his dam Pas de Nom, Petitioner to Ella Simon.
He is almost as rare as Pellegrino.
I have a mare that has 2 lines of Pellegrino and also 2 lines of the full sister to The Palmer and Rosicrucian, called Chaplet.
The Palmer was the sire of Pilgrimage x Lady Audley.

There was also a very good horse in South Africa that I believe went to the USA, called Horse Chestnut. Is that so?

Cheers.

[kimberley mine]

There was also a very good horse in South Africa that I believe went to the USA, called Horse Chestnut. Is that so?

Cheers.

You are correct; he stood at Claiborne Farm in Kentucky, never really did what they wanted him to, and went back to South Africa to stand next to his sire last year.