Soundest Sires Today

[soundfast]

Pete said "dogs have many problems such as hip dysplasia as a result of aggressive inbreeding."Anyone who ever studied genetics knows that inbreeding does not cause hereditary defects like hip dysplasia. If you read books written by experts you would know that if you cross a Great Dane with hip dysplasia with a St. Bernard with hip dysplasia you will get dogs with hip dysplasia even though the parents were totally unrelated. You do not know what you are talking about. You are not an expert on anything as far as I can tell. My dogs came from OFA certified ancestors Champion ancestors and were double inbred brother to sister and brother to sister offspring had no hip dysplasia or any other hereditary defect. I read internet news stories about Unbridled's Song and Tale Of the Cat which you could find if you looked. "An Unbridled Pedigree" Thoroughbred Times 11/3/01 says that Unbridled's Song had 1 start at 4 and fractured his right front cannon bone. NY Daily News archived Sports article "Injury Ends Racing Career of Forbes Tale Of The Cat" says that he fractured his left front leg. There was a prior arcticle that said he had his second fracture after 5 starts and said he had fractured one cannon bone and returned to racing and fractured the opposite leg.

[madelyn]

Actually the problem with inbreeding is that the lack of diversity in the gene pool might bring forward some rare VERY UNDESIRABLE traits.

[hpkingjr]

OFA certified parents do not guarantee the absence of hip dysplasia. Breeding an OFA certified bitch to an OFA certified stud dog lessens the chance for hip dysplasia in the puppies, nothing more nothing less.

My term for internet information is often "pooled ignorance."

[LB]

You are not an expert on anything as far as I can tell...I read internet news stories about Unbridled's Song and Tale Of the Cat which you could find if you looked.

soundfast, the more you argue with Pete--who is one of the most well-informed internet posters you could ever hope to be able to learn something from--the more ignorant you make yourself look.

The fact is there are posters on this BB who don't have to get their information about Unbridled's Song and Tale of the Cat from internet articles because they know the horses personally.

[soundfast]

I am not the one who is ignorant. If you had more knowledge yourself you would know that. If the OFA certified ancestors do not have the genetic makeup to produce hip dysplasia then they cannot produce offspring with hip dysplasia no matter how inbred unless a mutation occurs.

[madelyn]

soundfast, hpkingjr is a small animal vet and I would take his word over the "internet pooled ignorance" anyday and twice on Sunday.

[hpkingjr]

I am not the one who is ignorant. If you had more knowledge yourself you would know that. If the OFA certified ancestors do not have the genetic makeup to produce hip dysplasia then they cannot produce offspring with hip dysplasia no matter how inbred unless a mutation occurs.

Sound:

Perhaps you might read this "internet" link. I question the source, correctness and clarity of your information sources.

http://petsurgery.com/caninehipdysplasia.html

[ArchDandy]

Arguing on the internet is like competing in the special olympics...

[soundfast]

The article says that it is hereditary and dogs can only produce it if the genes responsible for the disease are present. That is exactly what I said. If they do not have those genes they cannot produce hip dysplasia. I guess you did not read the article yourself either that or your reading comprehension needs work. I thank God you are not my vet. You do not seem to understand plain English. To simplify for those who do not know the basics. Two grey horses each carrying 2 gray genes. All offspring are grey unless there is a mutation. Two grey horses each carrying a chestnut gene offspring can be grey or chestnut. Two grey horses one has 2 grey genes the other one grey and one chestnut gene. Grey is dominant to chestnut so all offspring will be grey. Each parent contributes one color gene to the offspring. In every single gene trait. Where each parent carries a chestnut gene the 2 recessives genes can combine and produce a chestnut. The same goes for every other simple one gene trait.

[madelyn]

soundfast, it says that four genes must be present for dysplasia to be expressed. It references the OFA as an organization that examines X-RAYS of living dogs. It doe NOT infer that OFA "certification" guarantees that a dog is GENETICALLY free of all of the genetics for dysplasia.

[soundfast]

I never said that OFA certification was a guarantee. I said if they do not have the genes to produce it they cannot produce it. My source was a book written by a veterinarian named Whitney.

[Roguelet]

Ahem...

While the new board rules are not technically official yet because we're still in the "tweaking" phase, we might all want to get used to abiding by them anyway just to make the soon to come transition less painful.

Some of you might want to review rule #3...

Just sayin'....

[Pete]

Hi Matt,

I'm a database dba/developer by trade and I found that I couldn't sufficiently quantify the variables that exist in breeding, training and racing to create any meaingful software to predict successful breeding or ability. The idea behind programs like Goldmine is the best that we can do - present facts and let the user decide their importance. That's the beauty of this game.

I think any source (site or otherwise) that tries to add to the discussion is positive. My comments about Jason Hall were meant to illustrate that it's not a one sided discussion and as I said I respect that he goes on the record.

Lion Heart had all the racing qualities of speed, temperment and athleticism that I look for in stallion prospects as well as precocity. I also liked several of his pedigree elements; coalescing family, new blood, sire-line rebound, etc. I prefer Claiborne's business model (limiting books) compared to Coolmore but the latter has an enviable record of making stallions. I felt that Lion Heart was about as easy a pick for success as I've seen in many years. It's still early but Lion Heart's fast start is what my clients and I expected.

Regards,

Pete

[Pete]

Hi Madelyn,

How are you feeling? I believe I read that you broke your leg?

I really like your analogy to sunglasses. Expensive while in fashion and bargain rack when they're not. Once discounted they rarely regain any value. Appropriate.

Regards,

Pete

[madelyn]

Hi Pete! Good to hear from you.

Yup, the leg was broken (tibia and fibula) and now I can set off the alarm in the airport (Hardware). I'm still limping pretty much and NOT ONE of my shoes fit my right foot. Thank goodness for my barn mules.

What did you mean about Lion Heart's family being "coalescing?"