Which young stallions have genuine MARKET APPEAL ?
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
My mare Shake On It is in foal to Sligo Bay. She's a daughter of Affirmed, who nicks well with SB's sire Sadler's Wells. He's out of a Halo mare who's full sister to Devil's Bag and Saint Ballado. Halo nicks well with Exclusive Native mares. We'll try it once and see what we get. If you haven't seen him, he's a nice midsize well-conformed stallion. Since he was a turf horse, my guess is his first few foal crops will not be commercial until he has late-bloomers successful on the track.
Rocking H
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roving boy
- Allowance Winner
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- Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2004 2:18 pm
- Location: Kentucky
New stallions
Interesting thread...something everyone should consider is the farm where that horse is standing. Some farms that promote well seem to get great prices for their first and second crop yearlings, and yet the stallions do not seem to make it. Other farms may not promote as well, but their stallions seem to make it anyway. As a few of the former group of Kentucky farms are extremely quick to send a stallion to the regional markets, one may want to be very wary of their stallions in their "bubble" (3rd and 4th) years.
I am surprised that no one has mentioned Came Home or E Dubai among those that have their first foals in 2004. I was impressed by the progeny of both.
Stallions with their first foals arriving in 2005 that I am watching closely are Aldebaran, Posse, Harlan's Holiday, D'Wildcat, Kafwain and Vindication. There are others, but I am bit wary of some that have been over-hyped.
Among the first year stallions of 2005 (or new to the US in 2005) I am impressed by Chapel Royal, Ocean Terrace, Speightstown and Rossini. Interestingly, Perfect Soul ( a son of Sadlers Wells) has been very well received by US breeders - so much for the "must have dirt form" argument by KY stallion managers.
I am surprised that no one has mentioned Came Home or E Dubai among those that have their first foals in 2004. I was impressed by the progeny of both.
Stallions with their first foals arriving in 2005 that I am watching closely are Aldebaran, Posse, Harlan's Holiday, D'Wildcat, Kafwain and Vindication. There are others, but I am bit wary of some that have been over-hyped.
Among the first year stallions of 2005 (or new to the US in 2005) I am impressed by Chapel Royal, Ocean Terrace, Speightstown and Rossini. Interestingly, Perfect Soul ( a son of Sadlers Wells) has been very well received by US breeders - so much for the "must have dirt form" argument by KY stallion managers.
Roving Boy
Be very interesting to see how Peace Rules does in Florida -- my feel is that he'll be popular. He may not be big in stature, but he has all the heart you'd ever want; if he passes that determination along, he'll get runners, though I don't think he's going to make a big early splash on the commercial side.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
hi roving boy ... hi Mahubah
roving boy wrote "...something everyone should consider is the farm where that horse is standing."
Couldn't agree more.
roving boy...I also agree with your Chapel Royal selection...he could be a hot commodity at a very reasonable stud fee ($10k). He's an outcross for so many mares...a Montbrook out of a Cutlass...interesting.
And he's at a farm that some believe...wrote-the-book on thoroughbred advertising and promotion.
Hi Mahubah...I sense that your evaluation of Peace Rules' is quite on target.
I believe he was one heck of a "game" and "classy" race horse...with a real engine...and he certainly had "heart" and "determination" as you wrote.
Peace Rules WOW...at first glance it seems that a $15k stud fee for a $3 mil earner and multiple G1 winner (Haskell...Blue Grass and Suburban) sounds okay...but a look at him...and a glance at his pedigree may leave some breeders cold and raise the question...Is he an aberration that's from a very old and rather ordinary family...and by a sire that was given up on, then sold (and shipped-off) to South America?
As far as being commercial...one cannot ignore the fact that Peace Rules turned in a rather pedestrian work as a two year-old (at an OBS sale)...had a rather scant looking pedigree...and sold accordingly (not very well).
I believe Peace Rules' offspring will draw attention at Florida sales...but I also believe you'll probably need quite the individual (out of quite the mare) to possibly attract serious money...anywhere.
roving boy's comment "...everyone should consider...the farm where that horse is standing" may be of unique importance re: Peace Rules. The Vinery (where Peace Rules will stand at their Florida division) has an announced business plan to step-in and buy offspring of their stallions at auction. That is a very attractive marketing tool in my opinion...and could be very appealing to breeders.
I wish Peace Rules luck...he was such a nice horse.
Respectfully
roving boy wrote "...something everyone should consider is the farm where that horse is standing."
Couldn't agree more.
roving boy...I also agree with your Chapel Royal selection...he could be a hot commodity at a very reasonable stud fee ($10k). He's an outcross for so many mares...a Montbrook out of a Cutlass...interesting.
And he's at a farm that some believe...wrote-the-book on thoroughbred advertising and promotion.
Hi Mahubah...I sense that your evaluation of Peace Rules' is quite on target.
I believe he was one heck of a "game" and "classy" race horse...with a real engine...and he certainly had "heart" and "determination" as you wrote.
Peace Rules WOW...at first glance it seems that a $15k stud fee for a $3 mil earner and multiple G1 winner (Haskell...Blue Grass and Suburban) sounds okay...but a look at him...and a glance at his pedigree may leave some breeders cold and raise the question...Is he an aberration that's from a very old and rather ordinary family...and by a sire that was given up on, then sold (and shipped-off) to South America?
As far as being commercial...one cannot ignore the fact that Peace Rules turned in a rather pedestrian work as a two year-old (at an OBS sale)...had a rather scant looking pedigree...and sold accordingly (not very well).
I believe Peace Rules' offspring will draw attention at Florida sales...but I also believe you'll probably need quite the individual (out of quite the mare) to possibly attract serious money...anywhere.
roving boy's comment "...everyone should consider...the farm where that horse is standing" may be of unique importance re: Peace Rules. The Vinery (where Peace Rules will stand at their Florida division) has an announced business plan to step-in and buy offspring of their stallions at auction. That is a very attractive marketing tool in my opinion...and could be very appealing to breeders.
I wish Peace Rules luck...he was such a nice horse.
Respectfully
FOS -- Think you're right that the "right" Peace Rules could draw interest at OBS; that's a market that historically has been interested in athletes first, pedigrees second. Depends on how fast his youngsters mature, I suppose.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
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Michael D.
- Yearling
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:44 pm
- Location: jupiter, fla
i hate to keep coming back to storm cat, but given the stud fee, i think the tactical cat's are getting more than their share of attention. i also know that military (by danzig) has drawn the attention of a few of top names looking for turf horses. the danzig/his majesty line turned out to be golden with danehill, and given the fee, and the relatively cheap prices of the yearlings, military offspring might get more than their share of attention in the next few years. as for market appeal vs stud fee, i take those two.
hi Mike
When you consider the opportunities afforded many of the Storm Cat sons (at stud)...especially at Ashford/Coolmore...don't you get a sense sometimes that maybe too many are actually disappointing (at least to some extent)?
Cat Thief and High Yield are two very young and very prime examples...G1 winners standing at two premier Kentucky farms (Cat Thief at Overbrook, home of Storm Cat...and High Yield at Ashford, a Storm Cat haven). It is clear that each was given super-star management and support. Where are their runners...are they playing polo off of them?
And (maybe a bit off topic) what about Giant's Causeway...it seems like every week he's got another full-brother retiring to stud. I'm getting dizzy.
Mike...many (north of the equator) are doubting Storm Cat (as a sire of sires)...is there nothing else to consider down under...other than a Storm Cat?
Respectfully
When you consider the opportunities afforded many of the Storm Cat sons (at stud)...especially at Ashford/Coolmore...don't you get a sense sometimes that maybe too many are actually disappointing (at least to some extent)?
Cat Thief and High Yield are two very young and very prime examples...G1 winners standing at two premier Kentucky farms (Cat Thief at Overbrook, home of Storm Cat...and High Yield at Ashford, a Storm Cat haven). It is clear that each was given super-star management and support. Where are their runners...are they playing polo off of them?
And (maybe a bit off topic) what about Giant's Causeway...it seems like every week he's got another full-brother retiring to stud. I'm getting dizzy.
Mike...many (north of the equator) are doubting Storm Cat (as a sire of sires)...is there nothing else to consider down under...other than a Storm Cat?
Respectfully
One has got to consider horses that run on turf. Tale of the Cat, with one crop has done OK.
Flavour of the month here right now is Encosta De Lago. He's by full brother to Salders Well, Fairy King. He started very similar to Successful Appeal and just kept going. He is now at Coolmore, who owned him but had leased him out. He stands at $132k and is currently the highest priced stallion in Australasia. Another out of Encosta De Lago's family doing well Flying Spur. he's out of the second dam of Encosta, Rolls. Rolls is a US bred mare. He won Australias richest 2yo race, The Golden Slipper.
Another doing very well here is General Nediym. He started in a similar way to Encosta. Although Aussie bred, he's out of a good NZ family which included a Japan Cup winner, Horlicks. His sire, Nediym, is out of a half sister to the dam of Shergar, the European 3yo Champion.
Sons of Danehill, Flying Spur being one, have done fairly well done here without having a real good one to take the mantel off Danehill himself. Danehill has four sons in the top twenty at the moment and he is currently leading sire.
Zabeel from NZ is second. He is by the champion Australasian sire Sir Tristram.
The current top freshman sire is Testa Rossa who's by the US sire Perugino.
Yes FOS. There are others but I still like Storm Cat.
Flavour of the month here right now is Encosta De Lago. He's by full brother to Salders Well, Fairy King. He started very similar to Successful Appeal and just kept going. He is now at Coolmore, who owned him but had leased him out. He stands at $132k and is currently the highest priced stallion in Australasia. Another out of Encosta De Lago's family doing well Flying Spur. he's out of the second dam of Encosta, Rolls. Rolls is a US bred mare. He won Australias richest 2yo race, The Golden Slipper.
Another doing very well here is General Nediym. He started in a similar way to Encosta. Although Aussie bred, he's out of a good NZ family which included a Japan Cup winner, Horlicks. His sire, Nediym, is out of a half sister to the dam of Shergar, the European 3yo Champion.
Sons of Danehill, Flying Spur being one, have done fairly well done here without having a real good one to take the mantel off Danehill himself. Danehill has four sons in the top twenty at the moment and he is currently leading sire.
Zabeel from NZ is second. He is by the champion Australasian sire Sir Tristram.
The current top freshman sire is Testa Rossa who's by the US sire Perugino.
Yes FOS. There are others but I still like Storm Cat.
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Michael D.
- Yearling
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:44 pm
- Location: jupiter, fla
i am looking to learn here, as i plan to be somewhat active at the sales in saratoaga this sumer, but i am still leaning towards the 10-15K second gereration storm cat sires (my range is 50-80k for a few yearlings). i realize i am a bit late to the game, so i might get shut out, but i still like the prospect of getting a few yearlings who might be somewhat precocious, but still might have the ability to run 9f on turf. thanks very much for the all the advice, ver y much appreciated, all of you!!!!!!
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Michael D.
- Yearling
- Posts: 61
- Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 3:44 pm
- Location: jupiter, fla
Mike and Fos,
thanks vm for the advice. my father is big on the arch and exploit lines for a turf horse, but your coments are surely appreciated, and my father sends the same massage. it's a great board here, seldom you see the real experts taking the time to help out........ good luck with your foals!!!
michael d
thanks vm for the advice. my father is big on the arch and exploit lines for a turf horse, but your coments are surely appreciated, and my father sends the same massage. it's a great board here, seldom you see the real experts taking the time to help out........ good luck with your foals!!!
michael d