Hard Spun--stallion prospect

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:51 pm

Michael CA....I don't know if Hard Spun is another Indian Charlie, but Sky Mesa is definitely another Pulpit. LOL!

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Tue May 08, 2007 6:54 pm

Rokeby Forever wrote:Michael CA....I don't know if Hard Spun is another Indian Charlie, but Sky Mesa is definitely another Pulpit. LOL!

If he gets retired any time soon, he'll have 7 starts under his belt, 1 more than Sky Mesa. Maybe that Danzig durability took a vacation???

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:30 pm

Maven wrote:
Rokeby Forever wrote:Michael CA....I don't know if Hard Spun is another Indian Charlie, but Sky Mesa is definitely another Pulpit. LOL!

If he gets retired any time soon, he'll have 7 starts under his belt, 1 more than Sky Mesa. Maybe that Danzig durability took a vacation???

Hard Spun has already run twice more than his sire did. Maybe working in :57 3/5 has something to do with his problems...is that any way to train a cripple?

Bertrando ran 24 times and Officer ran 9 times. I already see the downward trend continuing through that sire.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:32 pm

This is all gossip that Hard Spun might retire, idle speculation. I hardly think he's as weak in the bones as Indian Charlie.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Tue May 08, 2007 9:51 pm

I think Hard Spun has an inherit advantage being by Danzig and not by In Excess.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Wed May 09, 2007 6:21 am

Rokeby Forever wrote:I think Hard Spun has an inherit advantage being by Danzig and not by In Excess.

For commercial appeal and a birth at a Kentucky farm...

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:35 am

As opposed to the In Excess offspring that keep horse ambulence manufacturers in business?

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:39 am

The Grey Sovereign line is renown for it's amazing speed, the problem with that is they need time to mature before being pushed. Unfortunately, people run them early because they can win early, and it negatively affects their soundness.

Im all for two year old racing, and I think that foundation is important, but just because you CAN doesnt mean you SHOULD. Anything from the Grey Sovereign line is a prime example of that, including your cherished Cozzene.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Wed May 09, 2007 9:53 am

Yes Maven...it does include my cherished Cozzene. :-)

Actually, In Excess would be only 1/2 the sire he is today in terms of success if owners raced his offspring later than they do. In Excess foals develop very early and generally capitalize on that in early races. When the late developers start coming around at three, the in Excess offspring may or may not be faster than them.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:02 am

They're faster... look at his results with foals they've sat on. He is NOT cheap speed. That line may be the purest and classiest speed line left available to breeders.

And again, just because you can, doesnt mean you should. I would argue many an Unbridled's Song have been ruined by using the opposite mindset... and Caro is sitting pretty right there on the dam's side.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Wed May 09, 2007 10:47 am

OK Maven, let's look at In Excess's top earners:

Texcess, Excessivepleasure, and Indian Charlie all raced at two. Valentine Dancer and Musical Chimes didn't race at two, but raced in grass stakes...how did that happen? I don't recall if Excess Summer raced at two, but he ran only 19 times as a gelding.

This year's top earner, Notional, raced only three times as a two year old and managed to bust a cannon bone on that modern day savior of horses, Polytrack. Maybe he would have stayed sound if he trained at Bay Meadows. LOL!

In the case of Unbridled's Song...do bad feet or comformational faults disappear over time? Buddha was in the Bill Mott barn as a 2 year old and raced only once...hardly a barn that pushes babies. He then raced 3 times as a 3 year old for another trainer and broke down.

John Servis is a guy that never pushes his babies. He raced Rockport Harbor only 4 times as a baby...and got 4 races total out of him as a 3 and 4 year old.

Nick Zito is another that never pushes his babies. Eurosilver raced only 3 times as a baby....and then raced a total of only 9 times over two seasons afterward.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:14 am

When it comes to In Excess, yes, they're great at two... but for the long term, most need time before being pushed to be good two year olds.

And im not sure why you ask the turf question? Part of what makes the Grey Sovereign line so great, is their versatility of surface preference and distance.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:35 am

I completely agree, Maven...but In Excess, as you correctly write, continues a speed line - he's not thought of as a "turf sire," and I'm not sure owners want a turfer when they breed to or buy an In Excess.

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Wed May 09, 2007 11:56 am

AGAIN... the versatility is there and its what sets the whole line apart. Versatility is valued by a lot more breeders than people think. And those that dont value it, should!

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Wed May 09, 2007 12:09 pm

C'mon, Maven...just look at my beloved Cozzene. Does anyone appreciate the versatility he offers (even at his age)? His stud fee was reduced to a ridiculously low $35,000 in 2007. There's no more versatile sire around than More Than Ready...what's he doing standing for the same fee as Officer?

Do people that breed to Unbridled's Song or buy his foals care about Agnes Sonic in Australia?

Once a sire becomes labeled as a "turf sire," he's dead in the water in this country. Polytrack and the BC Turf Juvie races might change that, though.