Pedigree Query

Just to refresh with a more focused thread:

Rockport Harbor (No Fee Announced) Darley at Jonabell
Borrego (No Fee Announced) Wintergreen
Lion Tamer (No Fee Announced) No Farm Announced
Sir Shackleton (No Fee Announced) No Farm Announced
Prince Arch (No Fee Announced) For Sale By McPeek Racing
Silver Train (No Fee Announced) Vinery (May Run 2007)
Warrsan (No Fee Announced) No Farm Announced
Congrats (No Fee Announced) Cloverleaf

Note: Prince Arch is for sale on McPeek's site and he's not a bad looking horse and for you color breeders McPeeks got an almost black son of Jules with 4 white socks up and stripe up for sale as well[/b]

How about Congrats?

sunday_silence wrote:How about Congrats?

I knew I was forgetting someone

Personally, if I were Claiborne I would've jumped at the chance to stand him and dumped his brother Flatter.

I'm glad Claiborne feels differently, and I agree with them. Congrats is not a fast horse, Flatter was. Congrats continually proves he's a fairly ordinary, nice stakes horse. Flatter was unproven, but more brilliant. I think he'll be the better sire.

Thanks for putting these all in one place, austique.

Not a problem LSB and to add...

Lawyer Ron (No Fee Announced) Stonewall (Retirement Uncertain)

I agree on Flatter as I think for 5k he is a very usable stallion & great value. I have only seen or noticed a couple by him & they were both yearling fillies & were nice. One of those was just recently sold for 90k. He ran a best rag of 1 which considering he only had 6 starts & 4 wins is not bad at all. Congrats is G1 placed & bankrolled alot more but just has always seemed like a nice but nothing more horse. In rating the other new sires of 07 only a couple have take a second look appeal in Rockport Harbor & Silver Train with the latter being the much better. RH had an awsome big stride about him & is by the right sire to have a chance to make it. His conformation & family leave alot to be desired however. I still have not looked at Silver Train's family but it looks rather weak at first glance. I do however like his sire as OT was the Indy that gave you speed. Sinister Minister is also my kinda horse. I def would take a look at ST based on ability & sire. Lawyer Ron, Borrego, SirS & Prince Arch would have no appeal to me whatsoever.

Rockport Harbor will be overpriced I have this psychic feeling about it. This years incoming crop as of yet does not inspire much excitement and when you think of others that might retire and be at stud next year...it isn't um well much to write home about.

Barbaro

I haven't listed Barbaro because of the uncertainty of his condition. While he's doing quite well, given past experiences I have sincere doubts about his ability to cover mares.

If Barbaro makes it to stud, the '08 breeding season would be far more likely.

I think Rockport Harbor was a very unlucky horse and Silver Train, while fast, is not very sound. And he's rarely won away from Belmont. RH may well be overpriced, but I'd like him over ST. He has the "what might've been" angle going for him, anyway.

I've always thought Congrats was a tough horse and California was maybe not the best place for him, although I adore Richard Mandella. Flatter showed flashes of brilliance, but I think he was a pansy. We shall see, right?

I'm really not sure how you determined that Flatter was a pansy, SS - did you even see him run? He also had only 6 starts......As for Congrats, I don't see him as tough at all. He's a nice enough horse, but I can't recall him showing much heart in his races. It's too bad - as a 2 and 3 year old, he showed a lot of promise, but he never lived up to it.

hi austique...hi sunday_silence...hi Tom Fool

austique wrote:Rockport Harbor will be overpriced I have this psychic feeling about it.

What is your "psychic feeling" telling you that RH's "overpriced" stud fee might be?

Possibly Eurosilver is somewhat of a comparable, although I believe that he (his dam is a stakes-winner by Nijinsky and his 2nd dam was a 2-yo eclipse winner) has more appeal than Rockport Harbor. Knowing that Eurosilver stood for $12,500 (in 2006) leads me to speculate that RH might possibly stand for that much (I'd be surprised if he stood for more), but I sense that $7,500 to $10,000 is a better stud fee range to consider for him. Maybe $8,500 is a perfect spot.

Even though Rockport Harbor is out of a minor stakes-winning Copelan mare (which I find interesting)...his second dam (although she too is a stakes-winner) is by Banner Bob, and his 3rd dam is by Kamarann...hmmm. Those names do concern me, especially in a stallion prospect's pedigree, and I expect it will concern others. Regardless, Rockport Harbor is by popular (in the eyes of many) Unbridled's Song and did have some zip in his step.

sunday_silence wrote:Personally, if I were Claiborne I would've jumped at the chance to stand (Congrats) and dumped his brother Flatter.

The fact that world renowned breeding and stallion facility Claiborne Farm sold Congrats, arguably seems to speak volumes re: what they thought of him as a stallion/sire prospect.

Congrats is by A.P. Indy, who arguably is on the road to proving to be an important sire of sires, and he has a family which includes quite a number of horses that stood at stud. Unfortunately though, thoses sires (in Congrats family) appear to be quite a disappointing group...Eastern Echo (regional)...Roar (shipped off the premises at Lanes End), Blare of Trumpets (all but forgotten), Sea Hero (ouch)...Hero's Honor (maybe as a broodmare sire)...

...could that have been a reason why Claiborne said bye-bye to Congrats.

TomFool wrote:I still have not looked at Silver Train's family but it looks rather weak at first glance.

Maybe so...but any colt that wins the G1-Breeders' Cup Sprint and the G1-Metropolitan Handicap deserves a chance at stud. This guy not only has serious speed but also proved he could carry it a mile, in a Grade 1 no less.

TomFool wrote:I do however like his sire as OT was the Indy that gave you speed.

Looks like Old Trieste passed on some serious speed to Silver Train.

Respectfully

FOS,

My psychic feeling tells me you are way on the low side