Goods

[Roguelet]

http://www.pedigreequery.com/goods

Thoughts on this guy?

[Crystal]

really like him 3rd and 4th back.. but to me it doesnt look great one of his sisters is up for adoption in NY.. I'd do get her too!

[Sam]

Would probably make someone a nice pleasure gelding. Terrificly unimpressive female family.

[madelyn]

Hmm. As a stallion prospect? Racing prospect?

I don't have access to his race record beyond the bit of info in the notes on the query board, which is more up to date than my '06 APR.

But as a stallion prospect his conspicuous lack of presence in any stakes races last year and this year would scratch him off my list. His record of 3-1-1-1 and winnings of $29,700 is pretty uninspiring. Promoting any stallion is a form of swimming against the current. Promoting a horse like Goods at his present level would be like swimming up a waterfall. IF, however, you plan to potentially acquire the horse and establish a nice solid blacktype race record with him with a view to his stud potential, that is an entirely different picture.

[ragsdaj1]

I read the comment that Goods' tail female is not impressive and I have read similar comments made in other posts by different forum members about different sires at one time or another. Yet very rarely does the sire female tail ever come up in conversation after a foal is born and on the ground. There is talk of sire, broodmare sire and female tail, but rarely does the sire female tail ever become the focus past the initial hypo-mate. So how would Yarn figure in a Goods pedigree conversation in terms of importance?

Thanks,

JonR

[madelyn]

Yarn is not his tail female, it is Twirl.

And actually it is not all that bad.

Here is Twirl's APR:

Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2006


HEIR D' MINT, 1990, Sovereign Dancer- Flying Heat by Private Account.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1995 CHASSERESSE,B,f,Jade Hunter 4 38 5 6 4 153,390 (102) 1.86
North America 2 YO Record 8 1 3 1 32,923 ( 83)
North America Turf Record 6 0 1 0 9,180 ( 84)
North America Dirt Sprints 27 5 4 3 134,069 (102)
North America Dirt Routes 5 0 1 1 10,142 ( 94)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 1 1 0 17,160 ( 85)
DP = 12-4-12-0-0 DI = 3.67 CD = 1.00 AWD = 6.00
At 3 Won Marshua S. -L (54,400), 3rd Smart Halo S. (O) (42,800)
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 1996 1072 $10,000 $39,141 ylg (13/17) $25,000
FTMMAY 1997 147 $16,000 $69,509 2yo ( 8/ $25,000
1996 Twirl,Gr/Ro,f,Darn That Alarm 1 5 1 2 1 60,800 ( 84) 4.82
North America 2 YO Record 5 1 2 1 60,800 ( 84)
North America Dirt Sprints 3 1 2 0 14,720 ( 83)
North America Dirt Routes 2 0 0 1 46,080 ( 84)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 1 0 2,850 ( 75)
DP = 4-6-8-0-0 DI = 3.50 CD = 0.78 AWD = 6.00
At 2 3rd My Dear Girl S. (R) (O) (408,000)
1997 Maharana,B,c,Pentelicus Unraced
DP = 11-9-14-0-0 DI = 3.86 CD = 0.91
1998 Pashmina,Ch,f,Pentelicus 2 10 2 0 0 45,250 ( 90) 1.81
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 150 ( 37)
North America Dirt Sprints 9 2 0 0 45,100 ( 90)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 24)
DP = 11-9-14-0-0 DI = 3.86 CD = 0.91 AWD = 6.25
1999 Heir D' Twine,Dkbbr,g,Twining 5 49 7 7 10 190,545 ( 99) 1.65
North America 2 YO Record 3 1 0 0 9,900 ( 85)
North America Turf Record 4 0 1 1 7,080 ( 91)
North America Dirt Sprints 4 0 0 1 5,850 ( 92)
North America Dirt Routes 41 7 6 8 177,615 ( 99)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 6 3 0 1 51,980 ( 99)
DP = 12-4-9-0-1 DI = 3.73 CD = 1.00 AWD = 8.47
At 3 3rd Federico Tesio S. -L (107,250)
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 2000 2610 $25,000 $13,218 ylg ( 3/27) $2,500
OBSMAR 2001 0020 $50,000 $20,991 2yo ( 2/11) $2,500
2000 Not Covered Previous Year
2001 Southphilly Barry,Ch,c,Roar 1 10 1 2 4 28,230 ( 88) 1.04
North America Turf Record 2 0 0 0 740 ( 75)
North America Dirt Sprints 5 0 1 3 8,300 ( 88)
North America Dirt Routes 3 1 1 1 19,190 ( 88)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 1 2,760 ( 81)
DP = 10-2-10-1-1 DI = 2.43 CD = 0.79 AWD = 8.50
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
OBSMAR 2003 0330 $31,000 $26,313 2yo ( 5/16) $12,500
2002 Summer Pudding,Dk B/,f,Conquistador Cielo 1 3 0 1 0 4,280 ( 74) 1.17
North America Dirt Sprints 2 0 1 0 3,960 ( 74)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 0 320 ( 65)
DP = 14-6-10-0-0 DI = 5.00 CD = 1.13
2003 Barren
2004 Givamint,B,f,Point Given Unraced
DP = 5-2-7-0-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.86
SIRE 0.56 Spi, 21str, 12%2yo, 11%1st, 0%Mud/3sts, 0%Tf/10sts, AWD 7.3
DAM(w) 2.07 Dpi, 3 2yostr/3wnr, 33%Mud/12sts, 4 Tfstr/0wnr, 5 Rtestr/2wnr, AWD 7.3
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEENOV 2004 1288 $50,000 $44,143 wlg ( 3/ 7) $75,000


Here is her produce:


Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2006


TWIRL, 1996, Darn That Alarm- Heir D' Mint by Sovereign Dancer.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
2002 Matt Daddy,Dkbbr,c,Tale Of The Cat 2 12 2 0 5 31,910 ( 85) 1.03
North America 2 YO Record 2 0 0 2 7,370 ( 78)
North America Dirt Sprints 11 2 0 4 30,310 ( 85)
North America Dirt Routes 1 0 0 1 1,600 ( 74)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 480 ( 69)
DP = 6-2-6-0-0 DI = 3.67 CD = 1.00 AWD = 6.00
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEENOV 2002 0780 $40,000 $77,500 wlg ( 8/10) $30,000
KEESEP 2003 1686 $40,000 $105,944 ylg (25/36) $30,000
KEEAPR 2004 0256 $100,000 $163,800 2yo ( 8/15) $30,000
2003 Goods,Gr/Ro,c,Tale Of The Cat 1 1 0 0 1 4,100 ( 82) 1.14
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 1 4,100 ( 82)
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 1 4,100 ( 82)
DP = 6-2-6-0-0 DI = 3.67 CD = 1.00
SIRE 2.27 Spi, 281str, 46%2yo, 21%1st, 17%Mud/320sts, 11%Tf/608sts, AWD 6.8
DAM(sp) 1.03 Dpi, 2 2yostr/0wnr, 0%Mud/2sts, 0 Tfstr/0wnr, 1 Rtestr/0wnr, AWD 6.0
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTKJUL 2004 0307 $355,000 $165,375 ylg ( 7/64) $25,000
2004 Unnamed,f,Johannesburg
DP = 2-2-4-0-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.75
SIRE 0.00 Spi, 0str, 0%2yo, 0%1st, 0%Mud/0 0%Tf/0 0.0
DAM(sp) 1.03 Dpi, 2 2yostr/0wnr, 0%Mud/2sts, 0 Tfstr/0wnr, 1 Rtestr/0wnr, AWD 6.0
2005 Unnamed,c,Tiznow
DP = 3-1-6-0-0 DI = 2.33 CD = 0.70

Here is her dam:

Copyright Bloodstock Research Information Services, Inc., 2006


FLYING HEAT, 1982, Private Account- Turn Down The Heat by Key To The Mint.
YRS ST WN PL SH EARNED SR SSI
1988 Barren
1989 In A Walk,Dkbbr,c,Chief's Crown 2 11 1 3 1 39,730 (101) 2.52
North America 2 YO Record 5 0 2 1 15,530 (101)
North America Turf Record * 2 1 0 0 15,600 ( 79)
North America Dirt Sprints 7 0 2 1 17,760 (101)
North America Dirt Routes 2 0 1 0 6,370 ( 81)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 1,440 ( 68)
DP = 5-9-15-1-0 DI = 2.53 CD = 0.60 AWD = 8.50
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEEJUL 1990 149 $325,000 $203,406 ylg ( 3/17) $150,000
1990 Heir D' Mint,B,f,Sovereign Dancer 2 4 1 2 1 34,000 ( 91) 6.43
North America 2 YO Record 1 0 0 1 4,200 ( 80)
North America Dirt Sprints 4 1 2 1 34,000 ( 91)
DP = 11-6-14-1-0 DI = 3.00 CD = 0.84 AWD = 6.50
1991 Slipped
1992 Lil Merry Sunshine,Dkbbr,f,Chief's Crown 3 17 2 0 4 62,826 ( 99) 2.32
North America 2 YO Record 4 0 0 0 3,600 ( 76)
North America Turf Record 12 0 0 3 23,486 ( 99)
North America Dirt Sprints 1 0 0 0 0 ( 67)
North America Dirt Routes 4 2 0 1 39,340 ( 90)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 1,230 ( 63)
DP = 5-9-15-1-0 DI = 2.53 CD = 0.60 AWD = 9.00
1993 OMI,Dkbbr,f,Wild Again 3 16 7 4 1 319,718 (104) 11.56
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 0 ( 76)
North America Dirt Sprints 5 2 1 1 53,278 (101)
North America Dirt Routes 10 5 3 0 266,440 (104)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 3 2 0 0 40,808 (101)
DP = 8-7-14-1-0 DI = 2.75 CD = 0.73 AWD = 7.93
At 4 Won Arlington Matron Handicap -G3 (100,000), Bayakoa S. (O) (40,000),
2nd Falls City Handicap -G3 (274,750), Long Look Breeders' Cup
Handicap -G3 (115,500)
At 5 Won Relaxing Handicap (R) (O) (51,050), 2nd Charon Handicap (R) (O)
(52,300)
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
FTSAUG 1994 83 $75,000 $63,342 ylg ( 8/24) $35,000
1994 Flying Lauren,Dkbbr,f,Storm Bird 3 13 4 3 3 171,516 ( 99) 6.48
North America 2 YO Record 6 2 2 0 69,297 ( 91)
North America Turf Record 1 0 0 0 2,150 ( 78)
North America Dirt Sprints 7 2 3 2 93,647 ( 99)
North America Dirt Routes 5 2 0 1 75,719 ( 97)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 1 0 0 22,455 ( 78)
DP = 7-3-13-1-0 DI = 2.20 CD = 0.67 AWD = 7.25
At 3 3rd La Troienne S. -L (113,500), Dogwood S. -L (110,800)
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEEAPR 1996 204 $145,000 $334,091 2yo ( 8/11) $40,000
1995 Barren
1996 GROUND STORM,Ch,c,Summer Squall 6 40 11 11 8 628,599 (108) 8.12
North America Dirt Sprints 2 1 0 0 26,580 ( 94)
North America Dirt Routes 38 10 11 8 602,019 (108)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 4 1 0 1 68,135 (106)
DP = 5-5-13-1-0 DI = 2.20 CD = 0.58 AWD = 8.83
At 5 3rd Dominion Day Handicap -G3 (166,800)
At 6 Won Stymie Handicap -G3 (109,200), 2nd Aqueduct Handicap -G3
(109,200), 3rd Excelsior Breeders' Cup Handicap -G3 (200,000)
At 7 2nd Aqueduct Handicap -G3 (107,400), 3rd Stymie Handicap -L (80,975)
At 8 Won Stymie Handicap -L (81,625)
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEEAPR 1998 142 $475,000 $136,286 2yo ( 1/ 7) $25,000
1997 POMPEII,Dkbbr,f,Broad Brush 3 22 9 6 1 717,288 (106) 14.02
DP = 6-18-20-1-1 DI = 2.83 CD = 0.59 AWD = 8.50
At 4 Won Personal Ensign Handicap -G1 (400,000), Rare Treat Handicap -G3
(110,300), Doylestown Handicap -L (50,000), 2nd Go For Wand Handicap
-G1 (250,000), Next Move Handicap -G3 (103,900), 3rd Affectionately
Handicap -G3 (110,500)
2000 Heatcus,Dk B/,g,Atticus 4 22 3 3 3 52,720 ( 89) 0.81
North America 2 YO Record * 2 1 0 0 25,800 ( 86)
North America Turf Record * 6 1 0 0 27,540 ( 86)
North America Dirt Sprints 5 1 1 1 5,830 ( 84)
North America Dirt Routes 11 1 2 2 19,350 ( 89)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 0 ( 62)
DP = 5-5-23-1-0 DI = 1.72 CD = 0.41 AWD = 6.67
Sold at Hip # Sales Price Sire Avg Rank Stud Fee
KEESEP 2001 0791 $250,000 $44,357 ylg ( 1/14) $20,000
2001 Palaestra,Dkbbr,f,Atticus 2 16 3 3 2 127,965 ( 98) 3.13
North America Turf Record 2 0 0 0 730 ( 78)
North America Dirt Routes 14 3 3 2 127,235 ( 98)
North America Muddy/Sloppy 1 0 0 0 2,455 ( 72)
DP = 5-5-23-1-0 DI = 1.72 CD = 0.41 AWD = 8.33
At 4 2nd Lighthouse S. (O) (60,000), Charon S. (O) (40,000)




Goods was sold at Fasig Tipton July for $355K. Her dam can't be blamed for a low price on a Point Given... he is so ugly a horse.

I would say if his half sister is listed on a canter site, someone should jump in their truck and trailer and go get her.

[ragsdaj1]

Yes I know that the Twirl is Goods female tail.

Lets hypothetical a moment and say that Goods is mated with Lady Bomb.

The foal sire would be Goods
The foal BMS would be Meadowlake
The foal female tail would be Lady Bomb Boomer Lady .... 1c

Twirl then seems to disappear in pedigree discussions about new foal. Am I imagining the drop in degree of importance of Twirl in this hypomate foal?

Thanks,

JonR

[Linda in TX]

Yet very rarely does the sire female tail ever come up in conversation after a foal is born and on the ground. There is talk of sire, broodmare sire and female tail, but rarely does the sire female tail ever become the focus past the initial hypo-mate. So how would Yarn figure in a Goods pedigree conversation in terms of importance?

Just because the female family isn't discussed doesn't mean it's being disregarded. The tail-female descent is the very first line I look at in any pedigree. For a horse, male or female, to be breeding worthy, one of my main requirements is it must come from a good family. If I'm looking at a mare's pedigree, I also look at her sire's family line, since that's where she gets one of her two "Xs."

Goods traces to Chelandry and he's from Alphabet Soup's family (semi-immediate -- Alphabet Soup's dam is a half sis to Opec, 4th dam of Goods). Goods' dam and granddam are young, and probably producing still, so they could certainly upgrade his page. His bottom line is perfectly acceptable; it's a shame he isn't a mare.

As a stallion prospect, however, I agree with Sam. Goods is by the yawner Tale of the Cat, and it isn't like the Storm Cat pool is drying up around the world....

[louis finochio]

As I read the pedigree of Goods, I saw the need of an outcross. The 9 crosses of Phalaris and duplication of those individuals that make up those 9 crosses would get a shot of hybrid vigor and soundness.

I would use a daughter of Pleasant Colony as this nick with Norther Dancer and his sons and grand-sons has been burning bridges.

[Roguelet]

Sorry everyone, I guess I could've given a little more information!

This guy is already standing at stud. He covered one of our leased mares pretty much at the same moment that I learned he even existed, and I'm just trying to get a feel for him while we wait to find out if the mare is in foal. It was a very last-minute cover with a very very very long story attached, but in a nutshell I'm trying to figure out if I should be hoping that he settled her or hoping that he didn't.

From what I am told, he took third in his first race but was injured during the race and therefore was off until January of this year, when he took 2nd at Gulfstream, then broke his maiden in his third start, again at Gulfstream. Then, he apparently was injured while in training at Keeneland. His connections decided to retire him to stud. He was retired late in the breeding season, and didn't get to the stud farm until May, but from what I understand he has settled a few mares.

His first and second dam, I'm told, are still producing, so there is potential for his "page" to improve. My knee-jerk reaction is that I'm not pleased about his sustaining two injuries, but I can't hold that against him because I don't know the details. My brain wants to make the assumption that he has soundness problems, but you know what happens when you assume. The injuries could've been due to accidents or something not indicative of soundness issues... I just don't have that information.

[Sam]

Pray the mare doesn't settle or aborts early.

This horse shouldn't be at stud.

[Roguelet]

Pray the mare doesn't settle

Wish Granted.

[madelyn]

Oh well, that's probably for the best. If I had leased out a mare and found out she was being bred to a horse like Goods, I would cancel the lease. My broodmare leases have, in the contract, the agreed upon sire the mare is being bred to. There is NO point in leasing a mare if she is not being bred to improve her page.

[Roguelet]

Normally I totally agree, and I wasn't thrilled, but this is such a strange case. This is the mare who was supposed to go to Crafty P, which would've been REALLY nice for her. In fact, she DID go once, but I don't know if the timing wasn't exactly right or what... she didn't get in foal.

We shipped her to another farm after she foaled this year (on the KY border so the trips to the stud farm would be less than half the time there and back as they would be from here), and she's been there for 10 weeks trying to get in foal. I know trying to get the timing right with Crafty P. was a major pain becuase he was only covering mares twice a week, once on Thursday and once on Sunday I think, and that's hard to time just perfectly. Then when he colicked, we had to go to plan B (among animal communicators and other strangeness.)

Plan B actually ended up being Private Terms, which I still was 100% happy with, but for whatever reason the timing still couldn't end up just right. I don't really fully understand all the problems since she wasn't here and I didn't have my hands in the middle of this the whole time, but apparently she kept creating follicles out of thin air and ovulating before they could make the arrangements... then it had been so long she needed a culutre, which ended up dirty, they infused several times, etc... just one thing after another.

This last try was a deal where she had been palped or ultrasounded or something a few days before with no activity, then she was checked that morning and had already ovulated again. I hoped they could put her on the trailer and take her right to Private Terms in hopes that she had JUST ovulated and she'd still be standing and they could get a late cover on her. But, for reasons that I'm still unclear on... something to do with the vet being gone and staffing issues at the stud farm or something like that, she couldn't go. So, the lesee was offered a deal on Goods just because he was available and she was standing, so he decided to try it. Honestly, I don't blame him... he's been frustrated for 10 weeks now trying to get this mare in foal.

Whatever she was doing there she appears to be "over it" now, though. She broke down for our stallion Friday but we kept Saturday's am vet appt. anyway to get our vet's opinion... we've only had her back here for about a week. He did a thorough ultrasound and found no edema, everything looked totally normal, she had a 3.6 follicle, and looked primed and ready to go. He said to take her home and breed her, so we did (to our stallion, at this point we really want this guy to have a foal next year, and our stallion is about as fertile as they come.) She was still standing yesterday so we covered her again, and we'll do that daily until she goes out (I'm going to tease her in about an hour and we'll see...)

I think we can get her in foal... according to her timing on her last ovulation at the other farm, she came in to heat when she should've, and she's been standing for at least 3 days now, so she's not doing any super-fast one-day follicle growing and ovulating or anything silly like that. And I REALLY trust our vet and he's thorough, and he saw no indications of anything to cause a problem.. maybe she was just waiting for our guy. He is pretty handsome. Of course, maybe she won't get in foal on this cycle either, and if that's the case we'll have to look into this deeper and try to figure out exactly what is going on. What a season.

[madelyn]

Well if it happens next year and you send the mare here, the "fallback" guy would be Rocking Trick

Sounds like a tough year for that mare, though.