what would be a good FLA stallion for a Concerto daughter
Moderators: Roguelet, WaveMaster, madelyn
what would be a good FLA stallion for a Concerto daughter
What Florida stallions would you recommend under $10,000 to work with a Concerto daughter and Bucksplasher on bottom?
Can't be too specific without knowing the mare's name and her female line, but if you can stretch to $10,000 or work out a foal sharing agreement, Halo's Image may be worth considering. He has gotten his best from mares with Northern Dancer blood and the 4x4 to In Reality doesn't hurt anything as far as I'm concerned.
Delaware Township might also be worth considering if the triple to Northern Dancer doesn't bug you. This horse seems to throw well with mares returning In Reality.
Seattle Slew line might also be worth looking at.
Delaware Township might also be worth considering if the triple to Northern Dancer doesn't bug you. This horse seems to throw well with mares returning In Reality.
Seattle Slew line might also be worth looking at.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis
I agree with Halo's Image if you can go to the limit of your range.
I found this pedigree Best of Luck. Mongoose is in FL but I dont like his numbers enough to think it would be good for you. His sales numbers dont look bad compared to his 14% starters though.
Mr. P line sire is always a choice too.
JonR
I found this pedigree Best of Luck. Mongoose is in FL but I dont like his numbers enough to think it would be good for you. His sales numbers dont look bad compared to his 14% starters though.
Mr. P line sire is always a choice too.
JonR
hi francesca...hi Mahubah...hi ragsdaj1
To my way of thinking, Halo's Image is overpriced at $10k. Maybe if he stood for substantially less he would not seem so overpriced and disappointing (to me anyway). It was a long time ago that his son Southern Image ran, and arguably this is a game of what have you done for me lately. That said...what I'm hearing from others seems to suggest that unless he has a barrage of newsworthy runners (or his stud fee is adjusted downward), many Florida breeders that have used HI's services previously, will look elsewhere for what they believe to be better value in 2007. Clearly, the sense that I get is that whatever support HI had at the $10k level is waning.
As for Delaware Township, I've seen a VERY high percentage of less than appealing to downright bad individuals by him (among the many that I've seen), which suggests (to me anyway) that he is extremely risky. Yes he can get a good one, but based on what I've seen thus far by DT, a good one is much more the exception than the rule.
I recommend that if francesca is willing to gamble with a young Florida-based stallion whose first crop of foals arrived this year, 2006...a stallion by the name of Omega Code, who stands for $7,500, seems to offer a good chance for a potentially HUGE upside.
Based on the MANY that I've seen thus far, he is (in general) getting what I would describe as the right kind. His foals (again, based on what I've seen) offer size, plenty of leg...good bone and overall conformation...a nice length and proportion...and the kind of quarters that pinhookers find enticing. The Omega Codes look like athletes, as far as I'm concerned. I've always thought that he was a very interesting and appealing stallion prospect, but after seeing MANY of his offspring, I am confident that his future is VERY bright.
Yes there's a risk in breeding to Omega Code in 2007, to the extent that his first crop will race in 2008...but I submit that my degree of confidence regarding his chances for success as a sire has increased significantly, after having seen so many good (and some absolutely outstanding) ones.
I've said it before, but I strongly believe that Full Mandate at $5k (first yearlings in 2006, runners in 2007)...Omega Code at $7.5k (first foals in 2006, runners in 2008)...and Indian Ocean at $4k (first foals in 2007, runners in 2009) are the three young Florida stallions with (from my perspective) the kind of credentials (including conformation), that I am most drawn to. I strongly believe that Omega Code, Full Mandate and Indian Ocean are 3 young Florida stallions with excellent prospects for success...possibly significant success.
It would not surprise me to see any one, or two, or possibly even all three of them have significant success, and attract hard-to-refuse offers from the land of the bluegrass.
Respectfully
To my way of thinking, Halo's Image is overpriced at $10k. Maybe if he stood for substantially less he would not seem so overpriced and disappointing (to me anyway). It was a long time ago that his son Southern Image ran, and arguably this is a game of what have you done for me lately. That said...what I'm hearing from others seems to suggest that unless he has a barrage of newsworthy runners (or his stud fee is adjusted downward), many Florida breeders that have used HI's services previously, will look elsewhere for what they believe to be better value in 2007. Clearly, the sense that I get is that whatever support HI had at the $10k level is waning.
As for Delaware Township, I've seen a VERY high percentage of less than appealing to downright bad individuals by him (among the many that I've seen), which suggests (to me anyway) that he is extremely risky. Yes he can get a good one, but based on what I've seen thus far by DT, a good one is much more the exception than the rule.
I recommend that if francesca is willing to gamble with a young Florida-based stallion whose first crop of foals arrived this year, 2006...a stallion by the name of Omega Code, who stands for $7,500, seems to offer a good chance for a potentially HUGE upside.
Based on the MANY that I've seen thus far, he is (in general) getting what I would describe as the right kind. His foals (again, based on what I've seen) offer size, plenty of leg...good bone and overall conformation...a nice length and proportion...and the kind of quarters that pinhookers find enticing. The Omega Codes look like athletes, as far as I'm concerned. I've always thought that he was a very interesting and appealing stallion prospect, but after seeing MANY of his offspring, I am confident that his future is VERY bright.
Yes there's a risk in breeding to Omega Code in 2007, to the extent that his first crop will race in 2008...but I submit that my degree of confidence regarding his chances for success as a sire has increased significantly, after having seen so many good (and some absolutely outstanding) ones.
I've said it before, but I strongly believe that Full Mandate at $5k (first yearlings in 2006, runners in 2007)...Omega Code at $7.5k (first foals in 2006, runners in 2008)...and Indian Ocean at $4k (first foals in 2007, runners in 2009) are the three young Florida stallions with (from my perspective) the kind of credentials (including conformation), that I am most drawn to. I strongly believe that Omega Code, Full Mandate and Indian Ocean are 3 young Florida stallions with excellent prospects for success...possibly significant success.
It would not surprise me to see any one, or two, or possibly even all three of them have significant success, and attract hard-to-refuse offers from the land of the bluegrass.
Respectfully
-
oliverstoned
- Restricted Stakes Winner
- Posts: 929
- Joined: Wed Aug 16, 2006 2:17 pm
- Location: Florida
Hi FOS --
I agree that Halo's Image is overpriced based on his overall production. Southern Image is miles the best horse he has sired and he does not have a high percentage of stakes winners. He has 54.4% winners so far from this foals three years of age and older, which is not terrible but isn't up to the 60% that has been something of a benchmark for a good sire. However, given the bloodlines of the mare, I think he is still worth considering, especially if a better deal can be swung on the stud fee and if the conformation match looks good. Halo's Image has gotten good results from the relatively few Northern Dancer-line mares he has seen.
Your comments on Delaware Township suggest that conformation issues should certainly be taken seriously in considering a match with him, especially if he is throwing some specific fault that tends to hamper the odds of the foal's withstanding training and getting to the winner's circle -- you certainly wouldn't want to send him a mare who throws that same fault or has it running in her family. Nonetheless, he is getting some decent runners from mares of modest quality (current CI is 1.29) and he does seem to be throwing well to returns of In Reality, which this mare has close up.
The problem with Full Mandate and Omega Code is that both are in a risky position from either a breed-to-race or a commercial sales standpoint -- they are both unproven sires and they are "on the bubble" with regards to the commercial market. By the time the prospective foal from this mating is a yearling in 2009, Full Mandate's oldest foals will be three-year-olds and Omega Code's will be two-year-olds -- and both will be expected to start showing some results. If they do, fine, but the vast majority of new stallions do disappoint.
Full Mandate has an excellent pedigree (potentially a good match on paper if you're not allergic to three crosses of Northern Dancer, which sure doesn't seem to bother the Euros any) and is indeed a very attractive horse in his stallion photos -- I have not seen him in the flesh. The fact that you say he is passing on good conformation and substance is certainly a plus, but only time will tell whether he makes a successful racing sire or whether he becomes a sire of handsome sporthorses and show ring hunters. A mating to Omega Code really loads on both Northern Dancer and Bold Ruler even without considering anything that may be in the mare's female family -- interesting, though it has kind of an all-or-nothing feel to it.
Particularly in a regional market, there are almost always holes that can be legitimately poked in a stallion's record and you are right to point them out. But at least with a horse with runners already out, you have some idea of what the horse is likely to throw, what problems need to be avoided, and what factors raise the chance of getting a successful runner. Of course, if you're aiming for the sales, you're better off going with the latest glamor boy who matches up well with the mare's conformation with the hope that you'll get a really athletic-looking youngster with some size -- it's crazy, but unless you can afford to go to a proven sire with established appeal in the commercial market, your best bet for commercial success is a first-year sire with proven speed, good conformation, and a fashionable pedigree since the equine fashionistas are always looking for the next "hot" horse.
I agree that Halo's Image is overpriced based on his overall production. Southern Image is miles the best horse he has sired and he does not have a high percentage of stakes winners. He has 54.4% winners so far from this foals three years of age and older, which is not terrible but isn't up to the 60% that has been something of a benchmark for a good sire. However, given the bloodlines of the mare, I think he is still worth considering, especially if a better deal can be swung on the stud fee and if the conformation match looks good. Halo's Image has gotten good results from the relatively few Northern Dancer-line mares he has seen.
Your comments on Delaware Township suggest that conformation issues should certainly be taken seriously in considering a match with him, especially if he is throwing some specific fault that tends to hamper the odds of the foal's withstanding training and getting to the winner's circle -- you certainly wouldn't want to send him a mare who throws that same fault or has it running in her family. Nonetheless, he is getting some decent runners from mares of modest quality (current CI is 1.29) and he does seem to be throwing well to returns of In Reality, which this mare has close up.
The problem with Full Mandate and Omega Code is that both are in a risky position from either a breed-to-race or a commercial sales standpoint -- they are both unproven sires and they are "on the bubble" with regards to the commercial market. By the time the prospective foal from this mating is a yearling in 2009, Full Mandate's oldest foals will be three-year-olds and Omega Code's will be two-year-olds -- and both will be expected to start showing some results. If they do, fine, but the vast majority of new stallions do disappoint.
Full Mandate has an excellent pedigree (potentially a good match on paper if you're not allergic to three crosses of Northern Dancer, which sure doesn't seem to bother the Euros any) and is indeed a very attractive horse in his stallion photos -- I have not seen him in the flesh. The fact that you say he is passing on good conformation and substance is certainly a plus, but only time will tell whether he makes a successful racing sire or whether he becomes a sire of handsome sporthorses and show ring hunters. A mating to Omega Code really loads on both Northern Dancer and Bold Ruler even without considering anything that may be in the mare's female family -- interesting, though it has kind of an all-or-nothing feel to it.
Particularly in a regional market, there are almost always holes that can be legitimately poked in a stallion's record and you are right to point them out. But at least with a horse with runners already out, you have some idea of what the horse is likely to throw, what problems need to be avoided, and what factors raise the chance of getting a successful runner. Of course, if you're aiming for the sales, you're better off going with the latest glamor boy who matches up well with the mare's conformation with the hope that you'll get a really athletic-looking youngster with some size -- it's crazy, but unless you can afford to go to a proven sire with established appeal in the commercial market, your best bet for commercial success is a first-year sire with proven speed, good conformation, and a fashionable pedigree since the equine fashionistas are always looking for the next "hot" horse.
"A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher...You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God: or else a madman or something worse." C. S. Lewis