Pedigree Query

Wow... what has attributed to Spanish Step's stud fee jumping up to $10,000 next year and Mongoose's dropping to $2,500?

I dont know I was asking myself that last season when he demanded $5k on his fee to a stallion with NO racerecord and one nut!

The owner did go out of his way to breed blacktyped mares to him the first few years. Maybe hes hoping those foals are about to pay off on the track soon? I know very few if any consessions were made on Spanish Steps. We considered sending a amre down there but at $5k, hauling to Fla, board rates, vet etc...for the money invested we found better value closer to home.

I do understand hes a nicely built horse.

I foaled out 5 SS this year. They were nice babies but also came from nice mares. At 10k he's smoking Crack

Where can we find a list of all the new stud fees as they are announced? Thanks.

Spanish Steps' increase is based on the look of his babies and the owner's confidence in the stallion.

hi skeenan...hi Ill-bred

skeenan wrote:Wow... what has attributed to Spanish Step's stud fee jumping up to $10,000 next year and Mongoose's dropping to $2,500?

In my opinion, despite already making no less than two moves from his original home at Hill n Dale (Lex), Mongoose is a lot of horse for $2,500...and I will not be surprised to see him come up with some VERY nice runners.

He's a Broad Brush that is ruggedly handsome, strongly-made and not as elevated as many of the leggy Broad Brush stallions. Although, in general, many of his offspring might need some time (and/or get better with age), I suggest it should be remembered that not only was he a 2-yo stakes winner going a mile and a sixteenth, but also that he broke his maiden going 7 furlongs at Saratoga. Furthermore, I've seen some Mongoose offspring that really look the part (to my way of thinking). I would describe Mongoose as under the radar and a very interesting young stallion.

Ill-bred wrote: Spanish Steps' increase is based on the look of his babies...

And what look is that might I ask? I've seen a number of his foals, they were (in my opinion) just foals. They might prove to be fine racehorses some day; but, thus far I've seen nothing particularly special (by Spanish Steps) that would increase my confidence in him.

Spanish Steps' connections went out on a limb and bred many (if not most, or all) mares they had access to, to him. That said, I tip my hat to anyone willing to put their money on the line, then stand behind their investment. Regardless, I found Spanish Steps difficult to rationalize (much less justify) at $5k, so you might imagine my thoughts based on his reported stud fee increase to $10,000 for 2007.

Ill-bred wrote:...and the owner's confidence in the stallion.

Maybe raising the stud fee to $10,000 (for 2007) is an expression of the "owner's confidence in the stallion" (your words)...but, I offer (tongue in cheek) that the result of such an increase (as far as attracting potential clients to breed to the horse) might not be a whole lot different than if the owner placed a sign at the farm entrance that reads...Enter If You Are Willing To Breed To Our Grossly Overpriced Stallion.

Maybe those words are unfair though, since Spanish Steps could really run... NOT !!! And he is the spitting image of his brother Unbridled's Song... NOT !!!

I must say, some of the first words that came to mind when I heard about the increase (for 2007) include Ridiculous...Absurd...Hilarious...Unjustified...Ouch.

Regardlless... I wish Spanish Steps' connections all the best.

Respectfully

FOS-

I agree that it was a very speculative increase.

But like you, I also give the owner credit for putting his own money (and mares) behind his stallion.

Interesting... kinda confirms my general feelings on both...

I can't believe Mongoose's stud fee dropped, based on his looks & race record, before given (what I deem, anyway) a solid chance to prove himself. Poor marketing or fickle market tastes? I'll be interested to see how his offspring do in time...

And an unraced stallion... in another post I had asked if anyone remembered a prominent racehorse being sired by an unraced stallion. Most replies referred to good local/regional horses, but nothing along the lines of a top G1 winning horse. Could be that there's some important info being overlooked (how's Tiger Ridge doing these days?), but the point of my asking was that if statistically, unraced sires don't or can't produce top runners in numerical proportions to their raced counterparts, despite excellent pedigrees & racing circumstances, why do folks continue to invest in them? Wishful thinking?

Specifically, in this case, paying really good money for an unraced sibling?

I'm kind of stunned at the development with Mongoose's fee. I don't have mares right now but I try to educate myself and keep track of stallions I think are promising. I'm pretty happy with my instincts on Arch right now. I remember liking Mongoose but of course I'm also a Broad Brush fan. I smell an opportunity here for some lucky mare owner.

I'm sure Spanish Step's owner is confidence in his horse but wow that's an ambitious fee. Must be getting people willing to pay it though right? Or would that be the advertised fee with deals being cut behind the scenes.. People do that right? Not pay the whole fee if they can swing something to get it lowered? Is one possibility some promise to breed back to the stallion or to send 2 mares for a lower fee per mare? I'm not experienced with talking down a farm standing a stallion so what are options in that area?

PS Say the title of this thread 3 times fast...total tongue twister.

An example of a good, unraced regional sire would be the late Cartwright in Illinois.

When I spoke to the farm last yr the owner of course wanted to know who I was breeding to and Why...then when I told him I was considering his stallion and another son of Unbridled...without even asking he told me...:If you are breeding in NY and can afford to breed to the only Unbridled son there you can afford a $5k fee to SS." I never signed the contract nor did I call them back. At 10K the horse is just another wanna be. his pedigree and the fact he was remotely affordable at $5k was what made him even slightly attractive.

TBLADY wrote:When I spoke to the farm last yr the owner of course wanted to know who I was breeding to and Why...then when I told him I was considering his stallion and another son of Unbridled...without even asking he told me...:If you are breeding in NY and can afford to breed to the only Unbridled son there you can afford a $5k fee to SS." I never signed the contract nor did I call them back. At 10K the horse is just another wanna be. his pedigree and the fact he was remotely affordable at $5k was what made him even slightly attractive.

Wow what an idiot. And quite the salesman *not*.

It's not just about what you can afford to throw $5000 away on geez, it's what kind of horse you get from that mating. You'd probaby have as much fun in the end by putting half of that in a pile of single dollar bills, setting it on fire, and using the rest to throw a big party around the bonfire for your closest friends and family.

I believe he owned a bunch of car dealerships previously...

"If you can afford a Camry, then you can buy this...."

I agree that is a tacky sales pitch.