Compare / contrast 2 CA Storm Cat stallions
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Compare / contrast 2 CA Storm Cat stallions
I'm looking at sending a mare to either Tribal Rule or Marino Marini, both Storm Cat stallions standing in CA. Anyone seen one or both and would like to give their opinion as to confirmation, commercial appeal? Since they are by Storm Cat, anyone had a change to check out the front ends on either of these horses? The Tribal Rules have sold well at Barretts Oct. sale just completed.
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fastappy
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Tribal Rule vs Marino Marini
Personally, I strongly prefer MM over Tribal Rule for the following reasons A) MM was stakes winner and multiple stakes placed G1 & G3 as a two year old, B) At 3 he was again multple group placed G1 & G3 in England, Ireland, & the U.S. (G1 Malibu, just missed by a nose), C) MM was multiple graded placed G2 & G3 as a four year old, D) He showed class on dirt and turf, & was fast from the gates, E) His dam "Halo America" is a G1 winning millionaire who's only other foal to run (as of 2005), "Quick Temper" is G2 placed.
Tribal Rule did not win until he was 5, he does not have any stakes placings, but was blazingly fast. He started 1 time as a 4 y.o. and placed and likewise as a 6 year old. Obviously he had some unsoundness. He is a half to the dam of "Yankee Gentlemen" (Storm Cat). His mother won twice as a 3 y.o. (28K). The couple of TR's I've seen didn't have TR's powerful hip.
I just happen to look in his stall while a friend was dropping off a mare to breed to Benchmark. He is a very impressive looking individual. I also visited Rancho San Miguel and looked at Marino Marini, he is not as muscular as T.R. and I didn't like the way his neck tied into his shoulder, but that is simply a preference and observation. Hands down I would jump on MM if I had the right mare. He's nice individual overall, but not a knockout.
What's strange is that Cal breeders may be over looking this (MM) very well bred individual, with the right credentials, as he only got 48 mares in 2005. MM stands for $7,500 (2006) and T.R. for $5,000.
T.R. is Ca.'s leading freshman sire by earnings ($150,000 as 10/05/06 w/14 starters) and ranked 22nd in the Nation. He has 1 stakes winner & 3 SP. I'm guessing that the Wygods have supported him with good mares like they did with Benchmark, so something should jump up there by spring.
Personally I think Iron Cat is a steal at 3K. He is lacking in stakes horses but he hasn't gotten very many decent mares until recently. Good Luck and best wishes!
Tribal Rule did not win until he was 5, he does not have any stakes placings, but was blazingly fast. He started 1 time as a 4 y.o. and placed and likewise as a 6 year old. Obviously he had some unsoundness. He is a half to the dam of "Yankee Gentlemen" (Storm Cat). His mother won twice as a 3 y.o. (28K). The couple of TR's I've seen didn't have TR's powerful hip.
I just happen to look in his stall while a friend was dropping off a mare to breed to Benchmark. He is a very impressive looking individual. I also visited Rancho San Miguel and looked at Marino Marini, he is not as muscular as T.R. and I didn't like the way his neck tied into his shoulder, but that is simply a preference and observation. Hands down I would jump on MM if I had the right mare. He's nice individual overall, but not a knockout.
What's strange is that Cal breeders may be over looking this (MM) very well bred individual, with the right credentials, as he only got 48 mares in 2005. MM stands for $7,500 (2006) and T.R. for $5,000.
T.R. is Ca.'s leading freshman sire by earnings ($150,000 as 10/05/06 w/14 starters) and ranked 22nd in the Nation. He has 1 stakes winner & 3 SP. I'm guessing that the Wygods have supported him with good mares like they did with Benchmark, so something should jump up there by spring.
Personally I think Iron Cat is a steal at 3K. He is lacking in stakes horses but he hasn't gotten very many decent mares until recently. Good Luck and best wishes!
The two stallions are a good example of different types of Storm Cats. Marino Marini is leggy and somewhat refined and more in the mold of a Tactical Cat. Tribal Rule is a pure muscular sprinter build more like a Stormin Fever.
I think both have a promising future but they may require different types of mares.
I think both have a promising future but they may require different types of mares.
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CA Michael
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I always hesitate commenting on other people's stallions, and won't make specific comments about either of these two stallions. However.... I never cease to be amazed at how many of us bemoan high breakdown rates, short fields, homeless ex-racehorses, corrective surgeries, and other black eyes in our industry, yet turn around and advocate using breeding stock--usually from the Storm Cat or Mr. P lines--whose own race records and conformation reflect nothing close to soundness.
As breeders, don't we each have a PERSONAL responsibility to fight the evils in our sport by making breeding decisions which reflect our beliefs?
JMO
As breeders, don't we each have a PERSONAL responsibility to fight the evils in our sport by making breeding decisions which reflect our beliefs?
JMO
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FloridaGators
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Also, the connections of MM have offered a large bonus to the owner of the first Grade 1 winner by MM; I believe it was $500,000! It's a long shot, but a nice sweetener.
"When I am on my deathbed, I imagine I will say, 'Thank God I did that'" - Arthur Hancock, on buying back Gato del Sol from Europe after Exceller was killed in a slaughterhouse in Sweden.
To Michael,
With all due respect, as there are only two stallions at issue you are not exactly making a generic statement here. TR only made 4 starts so I understand your point re him... he is on the leading CA list this year, right? so perhaps his get aren't all that bad? For a stallion that stands for $5K, well, they for the most part sold quite well last week at Barretts (so some folks must of thought they were worth a try). As for MM, he made 16 starts which is about average these days and did quite well running in graded stakes. I understand he wasn't top class, but then his fee reflects that. Is your adversion to these because they are Storm Cat horses or some other reason? I know it is in the best interest of every breeder to take a physical look at any prospective stallion but I do not have the time nor funds to travel about the country looking at stallions (for my small band, that would be KY, ON, FL, CA). If you are aware of a physical problem with these then why not just say so? I am aware that many Storm Cats have offset knees but not all of them do. MM must not have been that bad to fetch $1.8 M as a yearling. That is one of the reasons I inquired to this forum.
With all due respect, as there are only two stallions at issue you are not exactly making a generic statement here. TR only made 4 starts so I understand your point re him... he is on the leading CA list this year, right? so perhaps his get aren't all that bad? For a stallion that stands for $5K, well, they for the most part sold quite well last week at Barretts (so some folks must of thought they were worth a try). As for MM, he made 16 starts which is about average these days and did quite well running in graded stakes. I understand he wasn't top class, but then his fee reflects that. Is your adversion to these because they are Storm Cat horses or some other reason? I know it is in the best interest of every breeder to take a physical look at any prospective stallion but I do not have the time nor funds to travel about the country looking at stallions (for my small band, that would be KY, ON, FL, CA). If you are aware of a physical problem with these then why not just say so? I am aware that many Storm Cats have offset knees but not all of them do. MM must not have been that bad to fetch $1.8 M as a yearling. That is one of the reasons I inquired to this forum.
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CA Michael
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Aurora,
I apologize for not addressing your initial question head on. No, I have not seen either of these two stallions close-up enough to make a judgment about their legs. I agree with other posters here about their body types, however.
My comment was indeed just a general statement about using unsound breeding animals. Mr. P and Storm Cat usually top the list of sire lines which produce these types. There are others, of course.
Years ago I was the type of breeder who looked primarily at fashion and price in buying and mating decisions. Anyone who sells at market must look at these factors. However, I've learned that I sleep better when I place soundness at the top of my list. I'm tired of looking at race after race in which horses break down or are injured, and at vet lists which contain the names of hundreds of other horses which endure pain or death because Man has asked them to perform beyond the capacity of their genetic blueprint.
Thus far, I have been fortunate not to have any of the dozens of horses I've bred break down. Knock on wood~!
As a breeder, I usually can't control who or how horses I've bred are trained after they leave my care; nor can I control which racing surfaces they run on, or what medications their vets administer to them. The ONLY thing I can do is to make a conscious effort to patronize stallions and mares which are genetically predisposed for soundness, and whose own race records reflect that. That pretty much cancels out the two horses you are considering. JMO
I apologize for not addressing your initial question head on. No, I have not seen either of these two stallions close-up enough to make a judgment about their legs. I agree with other posters here about their body types, however.
My comment was indeed just a general statement about using unsound breeding animals. Mr. P and Storm Cat usually top the list of sire lines which produce these types. There are others, of course.
Years ago I was the type of breeder who looked primarily at fashion and price in buying and mating decisions. Anyone who sells at market must look at these factors. However, I've learned that I sleep better when I place soundness at the top of my list. I'm tired of looking at race after race in which horses break down or are injured, and at vet lists which contain the names of hundreds of other horses which endure pain or death because Man has asked them to perform beyond the capacity of their genetic blueprint.
Thus far, I have been fortunate not to have any of the dozens of horses I've bred break down. Knock on wood~!
As a breeder, I usually can't control who or how horses I've bred are trained after they leave my care; nor can I control which racing surfaces they run on, or what medications their vets administer to them. The ONLY thing I can do is to make a conscious effort to patronize stallions and mares which are genetically predisposed for soundness, and whose own race records reflect that. That pretty much cancels out the two horses you are considering. JMO
Tribal rule
I like both of these stallions, but, I agree, they are quite different. As to the sale, it appeared that Tribal Rules' connections were protecting him a little bit. Nothing wrong with this, but the breeder needs to be aware that won't happen every year.
As has been stated before, Marino was probably only a head away (1st in a grade I, instead of second) to standing in Kentucky.
Both are nice horses and deserve a look.
As has been stated before, Marino was probably only a head away (1st in a grade I, instead of second) to standing in Kentucky.
Both are nice horses and deserve a look.
Re: Tribal rule
tbrace wrote:As has been stated before, Marino was probably only a head away (1st in a grade I, instead of second) to standing in Kentucky.
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Now THAT was an expensive photo
