Pedigree Query

Is there a stallion alive now or a stallion in the past that you can point to as the victim of a particularly disasterous mismanagement? Doesn't have to be a KY stallion or even one currently based in the U.S. We talk about locations and fees for individual horses that our attention is drawn to but I think talking about who did something wrong can highlight what is good practice.

Some argue Man O' War wasn't well handled, esp. later on, and that he did what he did partly inspite of Sam Riddle. Any that come to mind like that or worse? I'm sure there've been some doozies.

obligato....in NY....comes to mind......ny , mass, ny, oblivion, ratty farms ect........a crying shame with his blood.

Do you count selling Forty Niner to Japan as mismanagement?

The great *Noor.

Upon his retirement in December, 1950, it was announced *Noor would stand at Mrs. Charles Howard's stock ranch in San Ysidro (about 3 miles from Tijuana, Mexico). At the last minute, she changed her mind and sent him to Kentucky in 1951. His late entrance into the stud hindered his book, yet he still sired a number of very good stakes winners from it.

When the 1952 breeding season was halfway over, Mrs. Howard brought *Noor back to California. From that point to 1964 *Noor stood at the Howard Stock Farm in Moorpark, CA, breeding only 20-25 mares a year. Most of these were the poor remnants of Charles Howard's racing stock, a few good mares purchased by his son Lin Howard, and less than a handful of outside mares. *Noor's opportunities were obviously far less than he would have enjoyed in Kentucky, as a champion son of *Nasrullah.

In 1964, age 19, *Noor was moved to Loma Rica Ranch in Grass Valley, CA, about 10 miles from my where I live today. He died in 1974, age 29, and is buried in the infield of the farm's training track.

I saw *Noor in 1962 when my folks visited Mr. Howard. I was awestruck by his presence. About three months before his death 12 years later, I drove up to see him to say goodbye. A truly great, utterly mismanaged stallion.

Michael, great stuff on Noor. Wasn't Loma Rica Ranch owned by Dr. and Mrs R.M. Law of Damage Control fame? Didn't they stand Civic Virtue and Pleiades II back in the 60s ?

Adonis. They can't even figure out how many of his first 2 crops are legitimately able to be registered.

Sam wrote:Adonis. They can't even figure out how many of his first 2 crops are legitimately able to be registered.

Oh no that's horrible. Imagine going to all that and producing a foal that can't even get you any money as a racehorse or registered broodmare/sire. Why is it they can't figure it out?

About *Noor it just makes you think how the breed might've been so different if the opportunities were managed properly. I wonder about the number of mares being bred because sure you don't wanna only have a few outside mares but you also don't wanna go for seriously lousy mares either. I guess it's a matter of PR and hustle. Wow that whole business of standing a stallion, esp. a top racer back in his day, seems incredibly difficult.

About Forty Niner, yes absolutely that counts. Does Sunday Silence count if you are talking about the fact that they sent him away without us getting to try to benefit from what was a golden goose in Japan? You always wonder if they maybe would've bungled him worse if he'd stayed and maybe the horse reached a greater height elsewhere. I feel bad for Volponi right now because maybe he's not SS but geez give the boy a shot. Charismatic's gone but hey Sun King's representing. Isn't that hilarious? He'll have a son standing at stud and they've pitched him?

I can't believe your parents got to see Charles Howard. After 'Seabiscuit' came out it's almost surreal that you'd see and talk to someone in the flesh who was involved. Kinda like when I saw the London movie premier of Big Fish and Ewan McGregor was 3 feet from me. My brain couldn't compute that he was in 3 D. Not star struck per se cuz I know they're just people but that someone you know in print or on the screen is actually real.

Heidilady wrote:

Sam wrote:Adonis. They can't even figure out how many of his first 2 crops are legitimately able to be registered.

Oh no that's horrible. Imagine going to all that and producing a foal that can't even get you any money as a racehorse or registered broodmare/sire. Why is it they can't figure it out?

I forget. Had something to do with the owner/farm he stood at.

He spent three years in NY -- WAY overpriced. I think he stood for something like $25k his first season. By his third he was down to about $5k and they were cutting all kinds of deals to get people to breed to him (as well as a couple other stallions). I think he was even bounced between 2-3 different farms in that time. His third year in NY was his worse. They had 32 mares reported bred, but only 8 reports received and 6 foals had been reported by September of 2004. There's now 20 registered from that crop, but if all you were going on was the Jockey Club report, you'd think he had REALLY bad fertility issues.

The JC report shows all the '05 foals as FL, but I seem to remember him covering half the season in NY. Again, crappy numbers by the time the report was compiled in Sept of 05. It showed 15 mares bred, 10 reports received and 7 registered foals. Really not sure what happened that year, those numbers might be accurate if him being in two states when he was breeding in '04 is right.

He's back in NY now at $2500 and again had 15 mares reportedly bred to him in '05, but no mare reports have been received and no foals registered.

The really weird thing is the ones they've managed to get registered aren't running. He only has about 30% starters which is REALLY weird for a Kris S.

He's not one I track daily, so all my reports on him are 6 months old at least, but the whole history of this guy is just wacky.

I always suspected there was something odd going on with Secretariat.

One of my mares is by Kerosene, who was apparently badly mismanaged. Some folks who remember him told me he was a really nice horse that just didn't get a chance.

Digression...no doubt about it !

I don't think he was mismanaged as much as being at the wrong place at the wrong time. I'm writing about
Affirmed. A Triple Crown winner and stabled next to Alydar. At one time you could breed to him for $15K. That had to be the best buy in America. What a great racehorse, very good sire, especially fillies, and turned out to be an outstanding broodmare sire. He has always been a favorite of mine.

Mojave Moon- The Boniface's (Bonita Farm) would not budge one dollar off the price of $7,500 the first 2 seasons this guy was at stud. Dumb. Not even for stakes winning mares. Dumber. This well bred but not very talented son of Mr. Prospector was bred to 10 mares in 2006. He stands for $2,500 in 2007.

Great thread, Heidilady. Looking forward to the responses.

Heidilady, my folks were guests of Lin Howard, son of C.S. Lin and Bing Crosby owned *Ligaroti, etc., but by the time I met him the sauce had pretty much become the object of his affections. He did buy some nice mares for *Noor (and *Nathoo), but produced very few good horses at his farm, which had very poor soil and water. As far as I recall, the only good horse he bred there was LUCKY MEL (Olympia), who he bought in utero.

Seabiscuit's statue (an identical copy of the one at Santa Anita) graced Howard's front yard.

*Noor, of course, became a very good broodmare sire, his daughter Noors Image being the dam of Dancer's Image.

If you can find a photo of *Noor, you might decide, as many of us have, that his head is the most attractive, intelligent and chiselled one you've ever seen. He was something else.