Pedigree Query

What are peoples opinions of Giacomo going to stud at Adena Springs? Is his initial stud fee set right?

The biggest problem is that he didn't have much in the way of speed. He was pretty sound and durable. He's a good size and nice looking. I haven't seen him up close to really look at his overall conformation, although I hope to do that soon. The issue for me with his stud fee is that you can get to his proven sire for $2500 more. I don't think he'll be commercial, but he might turn out fine for the breed-to-race crowd. Adena will support him, so he should have every chance to succeed. They should be careful to breed him to mares with some speed (or more than 1 gear).

I think that he'll get some good mares, but, because he really came into his own at 3, he might not get really precocious 2-year-olds (though his sire did have a champion juvenile colt).

Hi,

What do you think about Peaks and Valleys and other sources of Green Dancer?

Peaks and Valleys throws rather temperamental offspring. His dam, Strike a Balance, tended to throw foals (especially fillies) with rather strange temperaments. I see that in Peaks and Valleys' foals.

He's a very hit or miss sire and one I would never consider.

Giacomo, aka Gato Del Sol

From the Adena Springs website:
He broke his maiden by 10 lengths in his second start at two, and was weighted at 122 on the Experimental Free Handicap, just four pounds below the champion, two pounds below Afleet Alex, and equal with unbeaten Rockport Harbor.
IIRC, he was in continuous training for 12 months through the Belmont Stakes.

Hi,

He has to be the most underated horse going to stud this year.
Came from last (bad start) to finish forth in the breeders cup, thought that was impressive

Stronach owns the only other "real" son of Holy Bull at stud, Macho Uno. I wonder how Adena will pawn off mares between the two.

Giacomo, don't forget, got beaten only a length by Declan's Moon in the Hollywood Futurity - so I wouldn't say he wasn't a pretty good 2 year old. He always seemed to have his races gapped, though...I think that's a drawback.

Maybe I'm missing something, but....

With Holy Bull at $15,000, and Giacomo and Macho Uno at $12,500, I don't see why anyone would breed to Giacomo.

His price needs to be lower in relation to his proven sire (who was 10x the horse) or the better-bred Macho Uno (1/2 to Awesome Again).

I always liked Giacomo's come from behind moxy, he seemed pretty tough. But a horse that likes to do that is awfully difficult to win races with, because the timing has to be just right. The right mare might add the appropriate acceleration qualities to produce good offspring. I also thought Giacomo's fourth in the Breeder's Cup was a good effort, although that was a pretty slow race. Nevertheless he did beat some good horses. I've never really been that crazy about Holy Bull, but a lot of people really like him, and I kind of agree with Ill-bred that Giacomo would be better value if he were priced lower in relation to his sire. However, I imagine that in a couple of years he might come down to the point where he would be a sleeper breed-to-race prospect. Of course by that time he could be in Japan.

I actually loved Giacomo as a two-year-old.

And then over-fascination with speed figures led me to completely drop him before the Derby...

His 4th in the Classic was one of the best races he ever ran.

TBG wrote:What are peoples opinions of Giacomo going to stud at Adena Springs? Is his initial stud fee set right?

I wouldn't breed to him unless it was a freebie. I liked the horse as a runner as I had a $14 win ticket on him on Derby Day but don't hold out much hope for him as a stallion. Void of speed and never put up much in the way of speed figures of note. My guess is he'll be a regional sire within 5 years.

Just got to breed him right!

Holy Bull is breeding like Waquoit, send them similar stuff and shazam!