Pedigree Query

This guy's stud fee was just increased from $10,000.00 to $20,000.00, and he's earned that increase. I love AP Indy and I adored Jump Start as a racehorse - as a 2 year old, he looked like a stallion and just had all the potential in the world. He probably shouldn't have survived his injuries, but he did (per the vets) because of his classy demeanor. Overbrook gave him an extra year off and their patience has been rewarded by his first crop's terrific performance. I have to say that Jump Start surprised me; I didn't know what to expect, but not 21 winners.

What's nice is that it appears that his babies are developing into nice three year olds. Sir Whimsey is stakes placed, Bold Start won a fast allowance race at Gulstream Park in his 3 year old debut and Jump on In just won the Santa Ynez, a grade 2 race.

Anyone else surprised at Jump Start's success?

Betsy wrote:This guy's stud fee was just increased from $10,000.00 to $20,000.00, and he's earned that increase. I love AP Indy and I adored Jump Start as a racehorse - as a 2 year old, he looked like a stallion and just had all the potential in the world. He probably shouldn't have survived his injuries, but he did (per the vets) because of his classy demeanor. Overbrook gave him an extra year off and their patience has been rewarded by his first crop's terrific performance. I have to say that Jump Start surprised me; I didn't know what to expect, but not 21 winners.

What's nice is that it appears that his babies are developing into nice three year olds. Sir Whimsey is stakes placed, Bold Start won a fast allowance race at Gulstream Park in his 3 year old debut and Jump on In just won the Santa Ynez, a grade 2 race.

Anyone else surprised at Jump Start's success?

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While he may prove out eventually I see nothing he has done that warrants a jump to $20,000. His statistical numbers are weak and not worthy of an increase at this time. Yes, he's had a few nice horses surface but he was bred to some pretty nice mares with a CI average of 1:64. I also question how durable they will be as Jump Start was short lived on the race track. For $20,000 you can breed to Dehere, a proven sire of many nice horses (Take Charge Lady/Gramae Hall/Soto) with a lifetime AEI of of 2:06 with a CI of 1:66

What was his injury? If I knew, I don't remmeber.

I think a few of us tabbed Jump Start as a sleeper for 2006.

Jump On In ran a very nice race the other day, but I was surprised the fee doubled.

He broke down in the Breeder's Cup Juvenile. I don't know specifics but he fractured his left foreleg. Had surgery, etc.
Here's a conformation shot.... look at his leg...

http://www.stallionregister.com/sr_sire ... nglesearch

Actually, more like shattered that ankle in the BC Juve. I contended when I saw him, that it was a case of a big horse being pushed too hard, too early.

I think many thought the Jump Starts would take some time, thus when they started coming on at the end of the year, the buzz surrounding him increased. As the buzz increased, so did the number of people wishing to use him... which caused the increase in stud fee. Actually, I think he had a pretty large book prior to the increase.

He is a very nice looking specimen and, from what I have seen, stamps a classic looking foal. I really liked the Jump Start we had and had we continued in the business, I would have tried to use him again.

Personally, I think he might be the brightest star at Overbrook (with the exception of the Old Man).

KAL, except for Storm Cat, does Overbrook know how to manage a stallion?

I was very impressed when I saw Jump Start again last fall. He has so much balance, class, and attitude, that it's easy to ignore his gait. He handles it with aplomb. I'm not surprised at all. And most stud fees went through the roof this year if there was any buzz at all.

Just about every stallion on the freshman sire list (top ten) had their 07 fees doubled or more. Jump Start's fee remained at 10K until his book filled, even before the breeding season started. At this point Overbrook has doubled his fee simply because they can--it's ECON 101--The Law of Supply and Demand. They don't need to book any more mares to him and any mare that gets in his book now will pay the higher fee and will probably need to have their names written in bold type. I don't like the raise in his fee either (I have an 04 JS filly and would have loved to breed back to him at the 5-10K range). Now I guess It's up to his three year olds to justify that 100% increase in his fee--he'll have to do a lot more than he has to this point for folks to pay that much extra for his services, but heck, it seems most every other stallion whos fees have jumped seem to be filling their books just fine.

Why is it that all these stallions out of a Storm Cat mare got hurt? Jump Start, Buddha, Sky Mesa all got hurt early. Speightstown missed almost two years of racing with an injury. Does Storm Cat as a broodie sire of sires mean soundness?

I don't think we can blame the Storm Cat mares for unsoundness. Jump Start suffered a terrible injury, however as I said, he probably was too much horse for his own frame at age 2. Buddha has a horrible front-end.. and for some reason I am blanking out on Sky Mesa.

Then, you have a sound critter like Madelyn's Rocking Trick. Any problems he encountered were created for him (which is what I would have to say about Jump Start).

I think a major problem with soundness exists more with expectations and potential rather than problematic genetics or conformation. One might see a big, talented, well muscled 2 year old and get excited about its potential... then the critter simply gets pushed past his structural limitations. By the way, we also are seeing some of this in young human athletes via pulls, strains, and tears... or so my friend, who teaches sports physical therapy claims... apparently there a quite a few studies on-going.

Although Jump Start didn't have the powerful quarter-horse type of body we see in many Storm Cats, he was big and powerful. Oh... does it help to point out who his trainer was...

Oh... Rokeby... I don't wish to be mean... but my opinion of how Overbrook has managed there stallions is not positive. Now, how much is due to limitations within the organization, how much is due to external influences, I don't really know. Of course, since someone's job is to manage both, I'm not sure it matters.

I think had Carson City been handled better or marketed better, he would have been a much higher profile, desireable stallion, and could have justified a higher fee. He was respected and he got the type foals who ran early... you wonder why he wasn't treated like Distorted Humor... I think many horsemen would consider him in that catagory.

Then... one has to look at the different Storm Cat sons they stand... and all are struggling... and all are decidedly different types... and one must think that either the Storm Cat sons don't have "it" or that Overbrook is doing a darn poor job of figuring out what types of mares these guys need and then getting those mares to them. For reasons that I am not even sure about, my gut tells me it is the latter, rather than the former. I also am not sure how well they support their own stallions... I have heard complaints that they don't with their own mares and / or in the sales ring. I guess it would be easy, if you had a top mare and had access to Storm Cat, to send her to the commercial "sure" thing... while the sure thing is doing his thing.

Oh well... I could go on... but, I guess it might be said best by asking... outside of Storm Cat and for the few of us who believe in Jump Start, is there anything at Overbrook that one would find appealing enough to use? Look at the stallions on-track success, look at the pedigrees, and, I think, it leaves one scratching their head at why is there not more success. (Before any one points it out... I do still believe that Cape Town and even Tactical Cat can get you a good one, if you have the right mare... but selling one would be an uphill challenge).

Hi KAL, maybe you can answer this for me: What the heck is up with the management of Pioneering?

For a crummy $5,000, where is there a better value on the market?

73% starters
53% winners/foals
7% SWs
$57,000 average earnings/runner

All done with backyard type mares!

And, he's a Mr P, 1/2 brother to Storm Cat. As Storm Cat ascended the ladder, how come Pioneering couldn't ride some of the coattails? This stallion has NEVER been given a chance!

I mean...for the same "nickel" fee, a breeder could go to Behrens - who's devoid of ANY genetic material at all. Most Behrens offspring should be wearing a straw hat at a carnival.

I am completely at a loss how Overbrook hasn't been able to make Pioneering a $25,000 type stallion - did Overbrook ever support this stallion at all? Did the farm ever promote him? Does anyone whisper in a breeder's ear, "Hey buddy, for 1/100th the fee of Storm Cat, you can get Terlingua's family with Mr P on the top?"

And, in all fairness, Jump Start had a better fate than did Union City.

Thanks for all of your answers, everyone!

Jump Start was a HUGE 2 year old -maybe he shouldn't have run quite so early, even though he clearly was precocious (not that I'm blaming Lukas). William Farish is quoted in a recent BH article (the one with Indy on the cover) as saying that Indy babies are quite often physically precocious, but not mentally, and that they are often pushed too soon because of that. Who knows why he broke down, but I think the female family must have something to do with it. His full sister, Lasting Appeal, won her only start a couple of years back, got injured and I haven't heard anything about her since. Presumably, she's a broodmare.

I think it's too early to judge any sire off of just one crop, but for a horse that probably very few were paying attention to, Jump Start has done awfully well. I'm just thrilled for him.