This horse has to be one of the most underrated sires in CA, perhaps the whole country. Talk about a stallion that can get the big horse. And, they run over many years.
Anyone ever breed to him? What are the babies like to be around?
He ought to be on everyone's list.
Siberian Summer - Great Value at $5k
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Rokeby Forever
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This stallion exemplifies what's completely wrong with Kentucky. He'd never be given a chance in KY, but look what a terrific stallion he is!
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
As you can see, I dont mind turf or stamina in my horses. 
I should also add, besides the amazing Caro inbreeding the cross gives me, Siberian Summer really interested me because he does get runners, good runners from mares that arent that special. He really improves them. Considering my With Approval mare is unraced, I wanted the best possible chance to get a runner, and he was my answer while bringing in the Caro I wanted.
I should also add, besides the amazing Caro inbreeding the cross gives me, Siberian Summer really interested me because he does get runners, good runners from mares that arent that special. He really improves them. Considering my With Approval mare is unraced, I wanted the best possible chance to get a runner, and he was my answer while bringing in the Caro I wanted.
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CA Michael
- Grade II Winner
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Thanks for the nice comments about my boy. Your checks are in the mail!
tbrace, most of his foals are growthy, good boned types who share their sire's athleticism. Like Siberian Summer they all have wonderful temperaments--in spite of the preponderance of "hot blood" in his pedigree. About 80% of his offspring are grey.
http://thoroughbredinfo.com/showcase/siberiansummer.htm
tbrace, most of his foals are growthy, good boned types who share their sire's athleticism. Like Siberian Summer they all have wonderful temperaments--in spite of the preponderance of "hot blood" in his pedigree. About 80% of his offspring are grey.
http://thoroughbredinfo.com/showcase/siberiansummer.htm
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Rokeby Forever
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Rokeby Forever wrote:Castledale ran a whole 17 times in 3 full years...his sire ran a whole 7 times. Not exactly a durable turf line, is it?
This is 2007. I've said it before and I will say it again: There is a HUGE difference between CAN'T run more than 6 races and didn't run more than 6 races.
People just don't run more than necessary at that level anymore. Losses do too much damage to the potential stud fee.
Given the current environment and the level he raced at, I'd say 5 starts a year for 3 years is a pretty good average and holds up well against other horses. Or do you maintain that Barbaro was unsound? Had he not broken down and gone on to win the Preakness and/or Belmont, do you REALLY think he would have run out the year? Would you hold his less than 10 starts over 2 years against him and hold him up as an example of unsoundness?
Again, your standards are just ludicrously high for the current standards of racing.
I really hope Castledale does well.
I love his sire and the Nureyev line. I also adore Silver Hawk in the broodmare sire position. In my opinion, it imparts class and stamina like few others.
Castledale is quite small and he's priced a little strangely in some ways. He's probably too "cheap" to get a lot of commercial attention unless his foals really look athletic and have some size to them, and he's a tad expensive for an unproven commodity if you're breeding to race.
I also dont *love* his female family, but they've managed to get the big horse on occasion.
Whats interesting is, the only stallion of note from the family is John Alden who was, by all accounts, a real steady, good producer of race horses that stayed competitive against very good competition. He also turned it on some as a broodmare sire.
His best foal was millionaire Little Bold John, who won 26 stakes including the G1 Donn. I think he has some record as a Maryland bred but im too lazy to look it up.
Its interesting to note that John Alden was the least accomplished of all his siblings, which included a G1 winner.
All in all, I like him and truly have my fingers crossed for him.
I love his sire and the Nureyev line. I also adore Silver Hawk in the broodmare sire position. In my opinion, it imparts class and stamina like few others.
Castledale is quite small and he's priced a little strangely in some ways. He's probably too "cheap" to get a lot of commercial attention unless his foals really look athletic and have some size to them, and he's a tad expensive for an unproven commodity if you're breeding to race.
I also dont *love* his female family, but they've managed to get the big horse on occasion.
Whats interesting is, the only stallion of note from the family is John Alden who was, by all accounts, a real steady, good producer of race horses that stayed competitive against very good competition. He also turned it on some as a broodmare sire.
His best foal was millionaire Little Bold John, who won 26 stakes including the G1 Donn. I think he has some record as a Maryland bred but im too lazy to look it up.
Its interesting to note that John Alden was the least accomplished of all his siblings, which included a G1 winner.
All in all, I like him and truly have my fingers crossed for him.
I'm wondering just how well supported Castledale's going to be. The obvious answer is to breed to Mr. Prospector mares, but I don't think it's going to be that simple. We may just find it's harder to match him to mares than we think.
As far as this nebulous title of "unsound"... until a person can do something as simple as DEFINE the word and prove conclusively that all unsound horses are because of genetic flaws, not human error... I'm paying them less and less mind.
If the breed were as unsound as so many want us to believe, we wouldn't have horses like McDynamo coming from the SAME GENETIC STOCK.
The plain truth is average lifetimes starts have declined, not because of any perceived unsoundness, but because it's not fiscally encouraged to race a horse more than absolutely necessary. So stakes horses average 5 starts a year for 2 years then go off to make the really big bucks in the breeding shed and mid level claimers/allowance geldings run until the wheels fall off. Bottom feeder claimers with no talent are either given away as quickly as possible or run until they die with no regard to their quality of life
As far as this nebulous title of "unsound"... until a person can do something as simple as DEFINE the word and prove conclusively that all unsound horses are because of genetic flaws, not human error... I'm paying them less and less mind.
If the breed were as unsound as so many want us to believe, we wouldn't have horses like McDynamo coming from the SAME GENETIC STOCK.
The plain truth is average lifetimes starts have declined, not because of any perceived unsoundness, but because it's not fiscally encouraged to race a horse more than absolutely necessary. So stakes horses average 5 starts a year for 2 years then go off to make the really big bucks in the breeding shed and mid level claimers/allowance geldings run until the wheels fall off. Bottom feeder claimers with no talent are either given away as quickly as possible or run until they die with no regard to their quality of life
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Rokeby Forever
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Hobeau has cultivated that family for a few generations now. They have multiple broodmares from it already producing, and even when repeatedly bred to speed, the family is better at 4-5 year olds. There is no need to rush her off to the shed.
No one can argue that the call of money in the shed and the rising costs to insure a valuable animal on the track bring down the percentages and "statistics" of starts now a days.
As an owner and breeder, I can tell you it makes some decisions for me, whether I like them or not.
Speaking of Oonagh Maccool, if all goes as planned she should try some G1's this year and if she wins one, that will make her dam the producer of 4 Grade/Group 1 winners. I believe she's the only mare to ever have 3 G1 winners in the same year.
No one can argue that the call of money in the shed and the rising costs to insure a valuable animal on the track bring down the percentages and "statistics" of starts now a days.
As an owner and breeder, I can tell you it makes some decisions for me, whether I like them or not.
Speaking of Oonagh Maccool, if all goes as planned she should try some G1's this year and if she wins one, that will make her dam the producer of 4 Grade/Group 1 winners. I believe she's the only mare to ever have 3 G1 winners in the same year.
Last edited by Maven on Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rokeby Forever wrote:Really, Sam? Swap Fliparoo ran 16 times in the period of 12 months...she won the Test at Saratoga, just finished 2nd in the Sunshine Millions Filly Sprint, and is stretching out to face Oonagh Maccool tomorrow. Here's a Grade 1 winner that's never taken a break...maybe she's "sound?"
How fortunate for Swap Fliparoo that she has survived the decisions of her connections so far. I hope her good fortune continues. SHE certainly has earned it.
