Pedigree Query

In the Racing Post Today:

George Washingon is infertil and will be replaced with Holy Roman Emperor!

Maybe he was shocked about his covering fee!


Here the original text:
"HOLY ROMAN EMPEROR, who had been second favourite for the Stan James 2,000 Guineas behind Teofilo, has been retired to Coolmore to replace George Washington who has been experiencing fertility problems in his first season at stud.

The future remains uncertain for last year's Guineas hero George Washington. Coolmore will persevere with his stud career but the news opens up the fascinating prospect of him returning to the racecourse.

Saturday’s dramatic development had Holy Roman Emperor's trainer Aidan O'Brien admitting to being "shellshocked" after his leading contender for the Newmarket Classic had been packed off to stud shortly after working on the Ballydoyle gallops.

O'Brien said: "I don't know what to say other than I'm shellshocked. Holy Roman Emperor worked brilliantly this morning but by lunchtime the decision had been made to retire him.

"He was our best two-year-old and usually your best two-year-old one year is your best three-year-old the following season. Holy Roman Emperor was a very good two-year-old and was well forward and in great shape for this time of year."

Holy Roman Emperor won four races last season, achieving Group 1 success in the Phoenix Stakes at the Curragh and in the Prix Jean-Luc Lagardere at Lonchamp. He twice lost out to Guineasfavourite, Teofilo, in the National Stakes at the Curragh and again in the Dewhurst Stakes.

O'Brien said: "I thought he was unlucky not to win the Dewhurst. It was his first time to race on soft ground. He also met traffic problems and yet was only beaten a head. We were all looking forward to him taking on Teofilo again this year.

"Losing him out of the yard is like having a football team and losing your best striker-maybe even two strikers. There are other players coming along but they aren't there yet in terms of proven ability.

"He was gone out of the yard by lunchtime today after the boss (John Magnier) talked the situation over with me. Like George Washington, Holy Roman Emperor is a Danehill and Coolmore wanted him to replace George with the best Danehill around."

George Washington has never been far from the headlines since his racecourse debut on May 1, 2005.

The leading juvenile of his generation, culminating in success in the Dewhurst Stakes, he returned to Newmarket the following spring to beat subsequent Derby winner Sir Percy in the Guineas before showing his temperament when refusing to return to the winner's enclosure under Kieren Fallon.

Defeats in the Irish equivalent by Araafa and at Goodwood followed before he gained his revenge on Araafa with a smooth victory in the Queen Elizabeth II Stakes, a race in which the Ballydoyle squad were accused of team tactics by Frankie Dettori, an accusation they were cleared of at a subsequent inquiry by the HorseracingRegulatory Authority.

The son of Danehill retired to Coolmore after finishing sixth on his only run on dirt in the Breeders' Cup Classic at Churchill Downs.

He was rated the joint-best turf horse of 2006 in the World Thoroughbred Racehorse Rankingsand his stud fee was set at € 60,000 (approx £40,000).

A statement from Coolmore read: "In the very early stages of George Washington's stud career his fertility has been questioned. Coolmore today brought in veterinary expert Dr. Dixon Varner from the USA to consult on the matter and are awaiting his prognosis.

"George Washington has been suspended from covering and Holy Roman Emperor, another dual Group 1-winning two-year-old by Danehill and Ballydoyle's leading 2,000 Guineas prospect, has been retired to take his place."

Coolmore's Christy Grassick added: "We are fortunate to have a horse of Holy Roman Emperor's calibre to take over in order to facilitate our clients with mares booked to George Washington."

2,000 Guineas sponsor Stan James now have Teofilo as their 6-4 favourite, with Dutch Art 7-1.Ballydoyle's leading contender according to the betting is Criterium International winner Mount Nelson."

Interesting story, duchess. It's a shame to see Holy Roman Emperor retired so early. It would be nice to see George come back and race as a four year old.

All I can say is "WOW". Although that is probably a poor choice of words since it is the tagline for the advertisements of one of Darley's stallions.

Kinda stunned. Now they say fertility issues but horses like AP Valentine got worked up to being able to do some successful covers right? Or is this more of a Cigar situation?

Really a shame we lost out on Holy Roman Emperor. O'Brien really tried to keep him around and they wouldn't hear of it. Not thrilled about how that worked out.

What sportsmen. Go Coolmore.

They now have their very own Bernardini.

Gotta pay for The Green Monkey and Fu Peg somehow....if I was Darley,I'd say "Aidan,WE would never do that to you" and watch the fun begin....after that La Derby,maybe Circular Quay should ship to Ashford..watta buncha maroons...

Maybe retire Ravel before he becomes the next Bandini?

I think George Washington was sterile - he didn't have any kids, but Martha had a couple with another husband. In those days, farmers had kids like crazy, so my guess is that GW was firing with an empty musket. Quite a coincidence, huh?

I think George Washington was sterile - he didn't have any kids, but Martha had a couple with another husband. In those days, farmers had kids like crazy, so my guess is that GW was firing with an empty musket. Quite a coincidence, huh?

Rokeby Forever wrote:I think George Washington was sterile - he didn't have any kids, but Martha had a couple with another husband. In those days, farmers had kids like crazy, so my guess is that GW was firing with an empty musket. Quite a coincidence, huh?

But how old was Martha when they got married? Fertility declines very quickly in the Human Female and back then it was considered dangerous (and rightly so) for a women to have children too late in life.

Nowadays with modern medicine the risks associated with later human female pregnancy have been mitigated to some extent, but back then medicine was more primitive than it is now.

-llbean

hi guys...hi Black Duchess

Racing Post text submitted by Black Duchess... wrote:Saturday’s dramatic development had Holy Roman Emperor's trainer Aidan O'Brien admitting to being "shellshocked" after his leading contender for the Newmarket Classic had been packed off to stud shortly after working on the Ballydoyle gallops. ...

O'Brien said: "I don't know what to say other than I'm shellshocked. Holy Roman Emperor worked brilliantly this morning..." ...

"He was our best two-year-old and usually your best two-year-old one year is your best three-year-old the following season." ...

"He was gone out of the yard by lunchtime today after the boss (John Magnier) talked the situation over with me." ...

Shellshocked? Why do I get the sense that when the communication with reporters/Racing Post was over and the talk with Magnier was ended, that O'Brien had an expletive or two (that maybe he even shared with his closest confidants) re the decision and/or his boss?

Is it fair to say that trainer O'Brien has experienced a rude awakening, and that the prorities and modus operandi of Coolmore are now crystal clear to him, like never before?

Respectfully

Ilbean - can't buy that. Back then, women had 12 kids because only 3 or 4 were likely to survive. You can't convince me that George didn't give it a try.

His buddy, Thomas Jefferson, used what was available on the plantation. George could have certainly done the same - who's to say that he didn't?

Rokeby Forever wrote:Ilbean - can't buy that. Back then, women had 12 kids because only 3 or 4 were likely to survive.

Good point, to be honest when I posted I was thinking of portraits I've seen of Martha where she always seems rather matronly but when I checked it turned out she and George were married when she was a little under 29 (it must be that most painters didn't bother painting her till her husband became famous, which was probably at least 15 years into the marriage).

So yeah, he had a window of opportunity there and didn't end up siring any children upon his wife.

It wasn't considered an overly passionate marriage, though, so maybe that had something to do with it.

Also, there's been recent evidence that a specific man and specific women can have fertility problems specifically caused by the combination of their genes (or at least their immune genes) being negative for an embryo.

In other words, we can't assume for certain that just because Martha + Mr Custis worked and Martha + George didn't, that it was a problem specific to George as it could have been something about the combination of George's Genes and Martha's Genes that was the problem.

Also, Mr Custis had her when she was younger and was (in all likelihood) easier to get pregnant given what we know about when a woman is the most fertile.

As to whether George fathered any natural children, we know neither whether he did nor whether he gave himself the oppurtunity to do so.

Still, even though I'd take it as much better evidence of infertility if he was married twice and failed to beget any children on either wife, you still make an interesting point and certainly its quite possible that George had some kind of infertility or impaired fertility.

After all, there's strong evidence that Samuel Pepys was infertile and he accomplished some things in the field of writing a diary at least (still, in his case it was a very nasty childhood operation that did it whereas with George there's nothing in the his biography that stands out as a possible cause).

-llbean

FOS wrote:Is it fair to say that trainer O'Brien has experienced a rude awakening, and that the prorities and modus operandi of Coolmore are now crystal clear to him, like never before?

I can just imagine how he feels and I reckon it sure ain't good.

To be honest, I have never heard of anything like this in the History of the World, they are retiring a perfectly sound horse to stud when he just turned 3 and before he ran one race as a 3YO.

-llbean

And who is to say Holy Roman Emperor is 100% fertile himself? He is still maturing.

This whole ordeal stinks...perfectly sound horse and now he's off to the stud barn. What a waste. At least George Washington raced.