Pedigree Query

I know this has been discussed previously, but I cannot figure out why Wagon Limit is NOT commercial and why he only bred 15 mares last year. I mean he had Silver Wagon and his brother who are still racing and winning G1 events. He seems to be a nice looking stallion with great numbers. So why would mares not be going to him? Same with Intidab. Both can get a big horse fairly easily. I have not seen either ones babies, so Im assuming they arent as good looking as others.

The Conquistador Cielo sire-line was never respected much and CC never proved himself a viable sire of sires.

While on the track, Wagon Limit was undervalued. I think most considered him a "one hit" wonder and I think a lot of people are applying that also to his stud career.

He had/has every right to be a good, solid breed to race stallion and there's nothing wrong with that. Smarten and Quadratic also fit that bill in their time, and they're from the same direct female family. I think they would be a good guide to use on Wagon Limit.

Wagon Limit had the misfortune of racing against the "good" Skip Away a bunch of times.

Maven, what do you think: When anyone thinks of CC or his line, they think speed (ala Marquetry, Artax...)...but Wagon Limit was a clunkup type horse. If a breeder wants to use Wagon Limit's damside as a stamina influence, he's still got the stereotype as a CC line sire (speed influenced). Isn't he one of those sires that's caught in the crossfire between what his breeding says and what his running style was?

He could win at a mile, but only at the Grade III level...and he made 39 career starts. 39 starts? Who wants that from a sire nowadays? YUCK!!!

I would agree that he's more of a source of stamina rather than pure speed, where Marquetry is one of the most pure (and underrated) speed sources in North America.

When you look at Marquetry's pedigree, I think most assumptions would have thought 9f type, but as we know, he's all speed.

I think it's a really good showing of how versatile Conquistador Cielo is. Im actually might be claiming a Conquistador Cielo filly off the track. I tend to stay away from claimers, but I like how he works with the majority of commercial stallions.

You're going to claim a CC filly? How old is she...15? LOL!

She's an 02 model... which is about 56 years younger than yourself.

Maven wrote:She's an 02 model... which is about 56 years younger than yourself.

Ah, shaddap!

Love... soft as an easy chair. Love... fresh as the morning air.

rudydee wrote:Love... soft as an easy chair. Love... fresh as the morning air.

Oh come on! Dont you dare disrespect me like that... I have STANDARDS!!!

You too, Barbra Streisand...shaddap!

And Maven....standards? Yours are probably up in the air more than a dead cocharoach's! LOL!

Come on Rok... let's at least be honest... who's the better looking individual? Im the sales topper, you're the claimer missing an eye. jk!

The Green Monkey was a sales topper, wasn't he? LOL!

Missing an eye? Popeye always got Olive Oyl, didn't he? Not that he was an Adonis, but what did she have that they always fought over....a stick figure body with size 14 feet? Never did understand that...

Derby2004 wrote:I know this has been discussed previously, but I cannot figure out why Wagon Limit is NOT commercial and why he only bred 15 mares last year. I mean he had Silver Wagon and his brother who are still racing and winning G1 events. He seems to be a nice looking stallion with great numbers. So why would mares not be going to him? Same with Intidab. Both can get a big horse fairly easily. I have not seen either ones babies, so Im assuming they arent as good looking as others.

I've got WL as the "best value" in America BY FAR at $2,500. He's a much better sire then many standing for 10 and even 20 times more. He's not 'commercial" but so what that's a scam anyway that has been found out in recent time(see: Jess Jackson/Mattress Mac/Satash Sanan versus scrupulous bloodstock agents and trainers). Anyone notice the SIGNIFICANT drop off in prices as a result? I'm sure those involved did.


WL was a solid race horse running 20 times winning 6 with 4 seconds and one third including wins in the GI Jockey Club Gold Cup by 5 1/2 over Gentlemen and Skip Away and WL also ran the fastest mile for the year when he won the Westchester.

His AEI/CI and Ave. earnings per start/starter and median are "off the charts". He is one of the few bargains at stud today and I've recommended him to anyone looking to raise a nice horse with a chance to get the "big horse".

His numbers are very impressive. He, in my mind, is not a one hit wonder. Granted his two biggest winners are from the same mare, but he has handful of quality runners. Much like Intidab.