Charismatic

Toccet02 · Postby **Toccet02** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:44 pm

Why was he shipped off to Japan so quickly?
He didn't have time to prove a failure in the US by the time they did that . . .
did he?

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 1:57 pm

Technically not ENOUGH time to prove a failure but his results were pretty damn bad at that point. Factor in the East's love for Kentucky Derby winners, the Lewis' age and decline in healthy, and im sure the offer was hard to refuse.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:42 pm

Nah...Farish simply gave up on him too early. What was wrong with Sun King in his first crop?

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 2:52 pm

One horse doesn't make a crop. I think it also says a lot when Sun King is his one claim to stud fame.

Rokeby Forever · Postby **Rokeby Forever** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:14 pm

As opposed to keeping King Cugat around?

Maven · Postby **Maven** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:33 pm

I was told he isn't coming back from where ever they sent him.

wallinga · Postby **wallinga** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 7:35 pm

How much did the Japanese pay?

griff · Postby **griff** » Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:07 pm

Does it mean a stallion is a failure if he's sent to japan??

What about Forty Niner?/

griff

xfactor fan · Postby **xfactor fan** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 1:08 am

How's Charismatic doing as a sire in Japan?

madelyn · Postby **madelyn** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:09 am

griff wrote:Does it mean a stallion is a failure if he's sent to japan??

What about Forty Niner?/

griff

And Sunday Silence..

Actually, though, there are interesting theories regarding what I call the "continental herds". The theory plays something like this. A stallion whose particular pedigree might not strike the match with mares in America might have just the right combination for another continental herd. One example is Spend a Buck who failed to fire in the US but was a success with the mares in South America.

My, probably very naive, theory is that a few hundred years ago when Thoroughbreds were first imported to various continents, their mates were not always Thoroughbred mares. They probably included some speedy indigenous mares. After all, the stud books were not closed. Racing was not so organized and disciplined a sport. I know there were races for half-breds in the past. The daughter of a half bred + a Tbred became a 3/4 bred, and a 3/4 bred with a Tbred produced a 7/8 bred. A 7/8 bred to a Tbred produced a full Tbred. In that way, it is possible that the American TB might have a tinge of Appaloosa blood, for one. The South American horses might include some criollo.

And evolution and mutation also play roles in the development of continental herds. Another factor is the lines that started each herd.

LaTroienne · Postby **LaTroienne** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:52 am

griff wrote:Does it mean a stallion is a failure if he's sent to japan??

What about Forty Niner?/

griff

It doesn't mean the stallion is a failure overall, but that he is/was a failure when he was sent. Before FN was sent to Japan, his horses weren't running to o well....unfortunately for the US market, though, they started running well after he left (Coronado's Quest, Editor's Note).

From the time Charismatic was sent:

http://www.bloodhorse.com/articleindex/ ... p?id=12081

Horse of the Year Charismatic, who has stood since his retirement at William S. Farish's Lane's End Farm near Versailles, Ky., has been sold to the Japan Racing Association and will stand at the Japan Bloodhorse Breeders Association Stallion Station near Shizunai. A fee has not been announced for the 6-year-old son of Summer Squall.

Charismatic's sale comes on the heels of the Yoshida family's Shadai Stallion Station buying this year's Kentucky Derby (gr. I) and Preakness Stakes (gr. I) winner War Emblem for stallion duty in Japan. Charismatic won the 1999 Kentucky Derby and Preakness and was injured during a third-place finish in the Belmont Stakes (gr. I) in what proved to be his final race. He was named champion 3-year-old colt in addition to Horse of the Year and was retired with five wins from 17 starts and earnings of $2,038,064 for owners Robert and Beverly Lewis.

Charismatic, who was produced from the Drone mare Bali Babe, has stood his three seasons for $35,000, and 38 of his first-crop yearlings have averaged $70,295 this year. Lane's End earlier announced a $20,000 fee for him in 2003.

Retrospectiv · Postby **Retrospectiv** » Thu Jul 12, 2007 7:24 pm

LaTroienne wrote:It doesn't mean the stallion is a failure overall, but that he is/was a failure when he was sent. Before FN was sent to Japan, his horses weren't running to o well....unfortunately for the US market, though, they started running well after he left (Coronado's Quest, Editor's Note).

Interestingly though, Forty Niner was the Leading 1st Crop sire, so he'd had some major success right out of the gate. Even if he'd had a lull period for a year or two, you'd think they'd have waited on mares he'd have received after his 1st crop sire title.

winds · Postby **winds** » Tue Jul 17, 2007 4:26 pm

I think most breeders are more interested in the quick money turnaround. Unfortunately. It would be nice to give a stallion some time to develop. Maybe they don't have precoscious babies but give them a distance and they excell.

I for one am tired of retiring 3 yr old colts because they sold for a rediculous amount of money to stand at stud and the farthest they ever ran was maybe 1 1/4 miles - once. I think there needs to be a cap as to how much a stallion prospect can sell for and a cap for what he can command in stud fee UNTIL he is a proven stud. And I don't mean the sales ring, I mean on the track.

Maybe people would run their horses as 4 yr olds. Especially if they could earn more doing so. I think the handicap races should be given more important status, ie TV coverage and purses.

I also think we need to bring back the classic distances, The Jockey Gold Cup used to be 2 miles then it was brought down to 1 1/2 miles now it's a mile and a quarter. Geez!

Maybe if the tracks started to shift their races a little, people would start breeding for those distances. I know, I know, they have a hard enough time filling races. Why? Because they don't have enough horses to fill them, or because everyone wants to pick and choose the exact race to fit their horse- even if it's a 5k claimer.

Maybe if they limit the amount of racing dates, where they HAVE to run if they want to make any money. I know it's a pipe dream, but something has to be done to make this sport interesting by allowing the fan base to have their favorites. That can only happen if the horses run past their 3 yr old season. I'm not saying take away the sprint breeding, but don't let it take over the breeding sheds.

Ok, I'm off my soap box now.

wind