The more I look at it.. I really think Storm Cat is a victim of his own success.
The stallion ovbiously is a great stallion, however I believe that his fee, the fact that he's well.. Storm Cat, I believe that ALL he gets is commercial mares, little of which probably have no chance of producing anything resembling a runner.
The first thing a breeder seems to do when they get a mare that produces a graded stakes winner, regardless of the bloodlines...STORM CAT
the first thing a Grade 1 winning mare owner does when he gets off the track....STORM CAT
with little to no regard of bloodlines.. AP Indy is starting to fall in the same catogory as well, but no where near as bad.
Storm Cat has nicks that have been proven time and time again to work and produce Great horses... yet most of his mares offer commercial value only.
I have a new theory on Storm Cat
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bdw0617
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I have a new theory on Storm Cat
"When the solution is simple, God is answering.”
- Einstein
- Einstein
Ok, before you make sweeping generalizations or comments, you really need to weigh the facts.
Let me start off by saying i'm not going to argue who's the better stallion between Indy and Storm Cat. They sire two different types of horses for the most part and Storm Cat is at a higher fee because he gets a more international horse.
With that said, A.P Indy has been receiving a better book of mares than Storm Cat has ever seen. Indy's CI is annually around the 4.00 mark, this year listed at 3.89, which means he gets the most cream of the crop, proven producers.
On the other hand, Storm Cat's CI is annually around the 3.50 mark. Still a stellar book by any standard. This year its listed at 3.60.
Statistically, the higher the CI, the harder it is for a stallion to meet it or surpass it. Storm Cat is normally right around his CI which is a great feat. Indy is often 40-50 tenths off, but again, an amazing feat considering how high his is as well.
I think people always want to support the "under dog" and Storm Cat gets a lot of grief for being at the top in the inflated fee mound, but he's sitting pretty there because his sales numbers are astronomical and appeal to every major racing market in the world.
I think it should also be remembered that fillies that retire with track success, doesnt always translate into good broodmares. In fact, more times than not, they dont.
So if it's actually TRUE that Storm Cat gets more fillies off the track than Indy (i'm not sure it is), he's actually put at a distinct disadvantage by getting unproven broodmares, while Indy's CI show's he's getting more proven mares of a high caliber.
And for the record, it's just fact that when you're on top of the commercial food chain, you're going to see anything with a pulse and a record of note that can afford your fee. All the top stallions get it, and it's just the market.
Let's not take away from the fact that nicks are often based on a small amount of runners and even a "bad" nick can produce a good horse. You never know where or from whom your next superstar will come from.
Let me start off by saying i'm not going to argue who's the better stallion between Indy and Storm Cat. They sire two different types of horses for the most part and Storm Cat is at a higher fee because he gets a more international horse.
With that said, A.P Indy has been receiving a better book of mares than Storm Cat has ever seen. Indy's CI is annually around the 4.00 mark, this year listed at 3.89, which means he gets the most cream of the crop, proven producers.
On the other hand, Storm Cat's CI is annually around the 3.50 mark. Still a stellar book by any standard. This year its listed at 3.60.
Statistically, the higher the CI, the harder it is for a stallion to meet it or surpass it. Storm Cat is normally right around his CI which is a great feat. Indy is often 40-50 tenths off, but again, an amazing feat considering how high his is as well.
I think people always want to support the "under dog" and Storm Cat gets a lot of grief for being at the top in the inflated fee mound, but he's sitting pretty there because his sales numbers are astronomical and appeal to every major racing market in the world.
I think it should also be remembered that fillies that retire with track success, doesnt always translate into good broodmares. In fact, more times than not, they dont.
So if it's actually TRUE that Storm Cat gets more fillies off the track than Indy (i'm not sure it is), he's actually put at a distinct disadvantage by getting unproven broodmares, while Indy's CI show's he's getting more proven mares of a high caliber.
And for the record, it's just fact that when you're on top of the commercial food chain, you're going to see anything with a pulse and a record of note that can afford your fee. All the top stallions get it, and it's just the market.
Let's not take away from the fact that nicks are often based on a small amount of runners and even a "bad" nick can produce a good horse. You never know where or from whom your next superstar will come from.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
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Rokeby Forever
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This is your conductor:
Last stop, Storm Flag Flying....last stop. This is the last stop on this BC train...take all your personal belongings and have a nice day.
For those looking to ride with trains connecting to Dispute, that line has been canceled. We recommend that you seek alternative train lines.
Last stop, Storm Flag Flying....last stop. This is the last stop on this BC train...take all your personal belongings and have a nice day.
For those looking to ride with trains connecting to Dispute, that line has been canceled. We recommend that you seek alternative train lines.
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
Since you like to "color" arguments to fit your agenda, Mr. Rok, it should be noted that there's ONE Storm Cat daughter out of Dispute compared to her FIVE Seeking the Gold daughters who have also produced nothing.
According to you, I guess we'll be missing the Seeking the Gold train as well, right?
Although it should be noted some of the Seeking the Gold's are too young to be proven failures or successes. Also, for giggles, the one Saratoga winner out of one of the Seeking the Gold daughters is by a Storm Cat grandson.
According to you, I guess we'll be missing the Seeking the Gold train as well, right?
Although it should be noted some of the Seeking the Gold's are too young to be proven failures or successes. Also, for giggles, the one Saratoga winner out of one of the Seeking the Gold daughters is by a Storm Cat grandson.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
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Rokeby Forever
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How about this agenda? The one where Storm Cat is number 4 on the Leading Broodmare Sire list behind Dixieland Band, Deputy Minister and Sadler's well respectively, while he is in front of Mr. Prospector (6), Rahy (8), Seeking the Gold (14), Danzig (15), Seattle Slew (25), Pleasant Colony (26), etc. yet you still call him "poison" anywhere in a pedigree.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
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Rokeby Forever
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I dont know, Rok... how many? Cite examples where he was the sole reason for a family collapsing.
And that "cull" was a once losing filly (4-3-0-0, her only lost being in her first race, just like Rags) who was a headcase but super talented. She'll be yet another reason why he'll stay comfortably atop the Broodmare Sire list.
And that "cull" was a once losing filly (4-3-0-0, her only lost being in her first race, just like Rags) who was a headcase but super talented. She'll be yet another reason why he'll stay comfortably atop the Broodmare Sire list.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
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Rokeby Forever
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Ile de France was G1 placed and earned over 125k. I'll take that in any race horse I have and so would you.
As a broodmare, her oldest is three and is a Dynaformer. Wouldn't you expect it to be a later developing filly?
Also, to be fair, Better Than Honour has a five year old Indy daughter who never made it to the races. She was retired right away. Cant have it both ways, Rok.
And you neglected to mention that Cara Rafaela also had a Deputy Minister and a Broad Brush that never broke their maidens, and a Seattle Slew that managed to win ONCE.
As a broodmare, her oldest is three and is a Dynaformer. Wouldn't you expect it to be a later developing filly?
Also, to be fair, Better Than Honour has a five year old Indy daughter who never made it to the races. She was retired right away. Cant have it both ways, Rok.
And you neglected to mention that Cara Rafaela also had a Deputy Minister and a Broad Brush that never broke their maidens, and a Seattle Slew that managed to win ONCE.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.
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Rokeby Forever
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OK, wiseguy:
Tiger Ridge and Norway did wonders for Weekend Surprise. Mr Sekiguchi did wonders for Welcome Surprise. He's trying to turn that family into a train wreck!
Let's go back to some of Storm Cat's best female runners. What has Sharp Cat produced...the great Saywaan, AS Cat, and La Dolce? How about Desert Stormer? Raging Fever? Pleasant Temper?
Tiger Ridge and Norway did wonders for Weekend Surprise. Mr Sekiguchi did wonders for Welcome Surprise. He's trying to turn that family into a train wreck!
Let's go back to some of Storm Cat's best female runners. What has Sharp Cat produced...the great Saywaan, AS Cat, and La Dolce? How about Desert Stormer? Raging Fever? Pleasant Temper?
CI
OK - found it on the statiscal summary page on Stallion register - would someone be so kind to answer this though?
Why are almost all the AEI below the CI - shouldn't some of the best stallions AEI be above the CI - or am I looking at the wrong detail?
Why are almost all the AEI below the CI - shouldn't some of the best stallions AEI be above the CI - or am I looking at the wrong detail?
The higher the CI the harder it is for a stallion's AEI to match it. Think about it... only a true super stallion will be able to contribute more than the best broodmares in the world... which is what Indy and Storm Cat see.
You're more likely to see lower CI's get matched and surpassed when the stallion is out producing the mares he sees.
You're more likely to see lower CI's get matched and surpassed when the stallion is out producing the mares he sees.
Don't be so humble - you are not that great.