Pedigree Query

"Hat Trick, a Japanese champion sprinter and dual Group 1 winner, will begin his stud career at Walmac Farm in 2008, the farm announced Thursday. The 6-year-old horse is by Sunday Silence out of the Grade 2-winning Lost Code mare Tricky Code. He retires with eight wins from 21 starts, including the Hong Kong Mile at Sha Tin, and with $3,122,708 in earnings." (DRF 9/6/07)

It will be interesting to see what his stud fee will be. Can't hurt having some new Halo/Sunday Silence blood back in Ky.[/i]

I really hope he does well but i'll sit this one out. Love the Halo line but his female family doesn't do a whole lot for me.

I don't know. The dam is from Family No 1 and has Friar's Carse, Champion 2yo filly and dam of War Relic in tail femail.

A Hail To Reason two time Grade 1 winner, Maven...free pass, huh?

this horse was seriously good on the track.

Maven wrote:I really hope he does well but i'll sit this one out. Love the Halo line but his female family doesn't do a whole lot for me.

I just thought about this Maven, and a lot of successful Hail To Reason line stallions are out of inferior families. The bias against Hail To Reason in this country is disgusting - the commercial market wants no part of HTR because they're sound and durable as opposed to brilliant and made out of tissue paper.

I don't believe for a minute that Sunday Silence and some of his sons couldn't/wouldn't be successful in this country. It's just that as long as everyone wants Northern Dancer and Mr P tripled in a pedigree, the HTR line isn't welcome here - because it might be successful and dominate the fashionably bred pieces of crystal that can run one big race and get shuttled off to stud. That's all there is to it...tough, hard knocking horses are no longer welcome in the breeding world. Instead of breeding to game, classy horses, people would rather breed to the "If he only stayed sound...." type sires.

you can't go wrong with Sunday silence

however I don't know if you wanna aruge about the female families part roke.. Deep Impact has one of the most stout families I've ever seen. he was defiantly "given help"

Look at some of the Hail To Reason line stallions out there - Dynaformer, Kris S, Red Ransom...where do you see any top stallions in those families?

my criteria isn't as high as maven the divas... but I would like to see some resemblance of past families passing on valuable traits like you know.. speed and little things like.. the ability to make it to the track.

that's why i'm so down on ghostzapper as a stud. Take out Ghostzapper, Lil E Tee (and it's sad when you have to take out lil e tee) and it was another big name horse or filly.. and the female family is a graveyard.


it's why I don't give 2 squats about Curlin as a stud.

Yes, there are no studs in the family, but the again, read above. I am not necessary looking for my baby to be a future stallion but i would like him or her to run a little.

What about Ghostzapper's half-brother City Zip? He's been stupendous at stud, and didn't have a KY or FL mare base to help launch him, either!

I think you people and your sire producing female families are getting a bit silly. Sure I think its important but by no means the most important thing about a stallion prospect. Dont overlook the obvious just because a horses female family is not chalk full of successful stallions.

TomFool wrote:I think you people and your sire producing female families are getting a bit silly. Sure I think its important but by no means the most important thing about a stallion prospect. Dont overlook the obvious just because a horses female family is not chalk full of successful stallions.

You're assuming I only look at families who are known sire producers. It's important to me, but it's not the end all. My big thing is I want to breed to a family that has had consistently top class horses up close if they have no history of producing good sons. This family does NOT have that. It's just not my cup of tea.

Rokeby Forever wrote:Look at some of the Hail To Reason line stallions out there - Dynaformer, Kris S, Red Ransom...where do you see any top stallions in those families?

Like I said, if I dont see a top stallion produced, I want to see consistent class. Dynaformer's family is one of the best at producing racehorses and needless to say, Red Ransom and Kris S would have both flown under my radar, but who's radar didn't they fly under when they went to stud?

Many stallions become successes out of nowhere, but even more fail. If i'm going to breed to an unproven stallion, they need to meet the criteria I have. Plain and simple.

This is my rule of thumb...

With a newly retired, unproven stallion, I take him out of the equation and look at his family as if he never existed. And then I ask myself if his dam had a 3yo filly, would I want her in my broodmare band? If the answer is no, I pass on the stallion in question.

The vast majority of stallions end up failures or minimal stallions... if i'm going to breed to one, I want to feel like I'm getting the best blood for the money.

Maven wrote:If i'm going to breed to an unproven stallion, they need to meet the criteria I have. Plain and simple.

I am soooooo biting my tongue right now. LOL!

On a more serious note: Since Hail To Reason has become such a great nick with so many different types of mares, I don't think a HTR line stallion needs a strong female family, unlike other lines out there. His nick alone with so many more popular ones work so well, I sooner look for class in the broodie's family as opposed to whether or not a HTR line stallion has a strong female family.

And, if the broodie has any Buckpasser in her family, I don't care what HTR line stallion she's bred to - it's gold!

Bite your tongue about what?