Regional Stallion questions

[pokeyman]

Hi all.

I have some food for thought that I wanted to explore....

Trying to look for value in the Northeast/Midatlantic Region.

Is Catienus the real deal? I am skeptical becuase off the top of my head it seems that every one of his stakes winners that I can think of is Ramsey bred. I doubt my mare would be a Ramsey broodmare so......

Is Lite the Fuse the real deal? His numbers are oustanding but what percentage of his stakes winners are Adena Springs Bred mares? Did he start out in KY?

Is Defrere the real deal? His numbers are great but he was in KY. Will his numbers dip as he starts breeding Regional mares?

Any comments would be great!

[pokeyman]

Come on!! No comments....!!.

[winds]

Well I know how the farm is run where Catienus stands and I wouldn't leave a mare there, I'd ship in breed and go home. If the stallion manager is picking out the outside mares to go to him, he doesn't have a snowballs chance in hell.

I'll really have to check the others and give Cat a look too.

winds

[winds]

Ok, Catienus, only 1 out of his 10 stake horses were bred by someone other than the Ramsey's. Lit the Fuse has had stakes winners but nothing to write home about and Defrere hasn't had many stake horses and what he's had it's all regional.

You could breed to better stallions for less money elsewhere me thinks.

winds

[merse]

pokeyman,

Are those the only stallions you are interetsed in or are you looking for bargains in the northeast/midlantic in general?

[Mac]

If West Virginia isn't too far, Prized might be a thought and also Limit Out. I haven't checked recently, but Prized has had his share of quality graded stakes winners, and Limit Out seems to get stakes winners fairly frequently, both regional and "graded". He hasn't had that many runners yet, but does actually have quite a few stakes winners, some of them high quality.

[KBEquine]

This is one PA stallion owner talking about someone else's PA stallion -so take it with that information in mind.

I really like Lite The Fuse conformationally. I've looked at his sales & at his racing progeny because we thought about breeding a mare to him who is too closely related to our stallions. His sales aren't as good as I'd like [Siphon, who stands at the same farm, is a more commercial sire] but I really like what Lite The Fuse gets to the track. If you're concentrating on the sale ring, he may not be a first choice. If you're looking at breeder's money for a horse whose progeny get to the races & are on the board, he's worth a look, if he fits your mare.

If you are looking in the Mid-Atlantic region for commercial sires, the ones I've found who have a shot are:

PA - Siphon, and depending on the mare, Lite The Fuse, Real Quiet & Congressionalhonor [who gets the 'new sire' bump in interest. although in general, the jury is still out] Siphon does better at sales, Lite The Fuse does well at the track & Real Quiet can produce a race horse, with the right cross.

There are also bloodstock agents in PA who are keeping an eye on Duckhorn, whose 1st foals are 2 y.o.s this year. BUT he didn't race as a 2 y.o. himself, so it'll probably be another year before anyone can figure out whether he is going to be at all 'commercial' or not. And while he's gotten lots of mares, I don't know whether they were mares who complemented him or not. Whether he's gotten quality or quantity - it's just too early to tell. So there are lots of questions.

NY - Catienus gets a lot of looks. So does Freud. I don't know the NY stallions well enough to have a better opinion on the subject . . . but it seems that Freud is getting attention, too.

MD - Not For Love, Two Punch are the established ones; Oratory is an interesting sire on the horizon & Domestic Dispute's early foals have done very well at the sales.

Good luck - there are lots of choices, & questions, but no answers!

[Monmouth Matt]

Pokey....I got to figure your looking at breed to race if your concentrating on Mid-Atlantic stallions.....great purses to run at.

Lite the Fuse- Love what he puts on the racetrack. Tough runners.

Defrere- Can't believe he covered 80 mares this year...what are people thinking...pure state-bred stallion, who's progeny do nothing in open company. KY. was a long time ago.

Freud- Overrated at current fee. Overmatched in open company....figures look good only because of restricted company performance.

Cat.- I guess...if you want to breed to a NY stallion.

What else looks interesting:

Pa. - Real Quiet...Ky. gave up on him a bit early.

MD. - Not For Love is the reigning king, but for $3500 I like what Partners Hero produces.Louis Quatorze can get a big one , but be careful on conformation.

NY.- In desperate need of a standout stallion. Tomorrow's Cat gets a few runners that can compete in open company.


Just my opinions.....I'm primarily a claiming owner,but occasionally buy at the sales. I'm going to start a thread on my thoughts of the 2007 mares-bred report in Bloodhorse this week. Please add your thoughts as well.

[merse]

Outflanker in Maryland is a stallion that moves up his mares and gets racehorses.

[pokeyman]

Yeah, we are breeding to race.....

Have 3 foals coming next spring by Cozzene, Concerto, and Tomorrows Cat.

However, I don't want to board mares out again next year as they all came back with some issue (one had bad rain rot, another a bone infection from hoof abscess, and bad worms in another). So, want to stay close to home, have my vet check them for readiness, drop them off to be bred, and bring them home!

We are looking to breed Regional runners....open company would be great but not our goal.

The mare bred to Cozzene will have the year off based on a late cover and then go to Not For Love. I DO have that breeding established! LOL

There are not a whole lot of choices for breeding outside of KY or FL where a stallion will have at least 6% SW from foals AND a higher AEI than CI!

Defrere and Lite the Fuse have very good numbers overall but I didn't know if the numbers were skewed because of breeding KY or Adena Springs mares.

Someone mentioned Prized, yeah...I don't like his foot issue though that he has passed on....otherwise, a decent stallion. Brass Hat should run well if he shows up for the race today!

Freud is WAY overpriced....I mean $10,000 for a NY stallion that is not Phone Trick or American Chance...forget it!

We are just trying to breed hard knocking low level allowance horses that never have to run for a tag and can compete in a Regional/State Bred program.

Thanks...any other suggestions would be great!

[Gerry]

Catienus is up to 16 stakes winners as of Thursday but at the same time, his stud fee for 2008 has also been upped to $10,000.

[winds]

At least 90% of Catienus' stakes winners are Ramsey bred. I know the farm, I worked in the office and the stallion manager doesn't know breeding. (she got the job because her husband is the farm manager). Believe me what I'm telling you. If you're willing to pay the stud fee, she'll tell you your donkey will fit the stallion.

Do your own homework, and go from there, but don't keep the mare at that farm for long.

winds

[bdw0617]

i can't think of the name off the top of my head, but at Saratoga there was a 2YO that broke his maiden going away by like 8. He was a NY bred. I wonder who his sire is? I remember it's a one word name and I think Tagg was the trainer

[Gerry]

Winds...we had a few mares up there this year, mainly breed and home but one mare had a foal at her side that was scouring badly so we left them there a few months...very happy with their care and baby is now a fat, sassy healthy weanling. And no, we did not breed to Catienus, altho we should have...I really like him but we were only there because of shares we own...with 8 stallions at home I have no reason to really send out.

There is one farm in PA that I would NEVER EVER even on a promise of millions if I did, send a mare too! They never returned my calls and NEVER bred my mare, told me that she had never produced a breedable follicle but when I spoke with the vets office (since my vet bill seemed too low) they only worked on my mare once and that was for a culture

And another farm in MD where a client took his mare for breeding that never changed the bandage on her leg. She left here with a small nick on her ankle and came home 3 weeks later, empty, thin and with proud flesh the size of a basketball...no exeraggeration..it was removed at Cornell and they have pictures.

[pokeyman]

Thanks again...

Winds- appreciate the heads up!

Gerry- I hear ya! I want to keep my mares close to home now as well!