What stallion(s) offer the most reasonable 08 stud fee and..

[jacksontyger]

offer the poor ole breeder some hope of profit? Are foal shares the way to go with all the risks a breeder must take?

[smeehan]

We've had good luck with Margaux Farm with Devil His Due and Cryptoclearance. Nice stallions, reasonably priced and nice, professional people to do business with. They are very willing to work with the breeder to find something that works for both sides.

[jacksontyger]

I have heard nothing but good things about that farm and its people. I think they do well for breed to race but commercially there is no way for profit that I can see. Devil His Due $10K 2007 stud fee with $18K average and $10.5 median Cryptoclearance $6.5 2007 stud fee with $6.1 median and $5,200 average. Again, I have heard nothing but good things about Margeaux Farm but for a commercial breeder I don't think they can offer much.

[Rokeby Forever]

If your mare matches up, why not consider Wagon Limit at $2,500?

[horsenuts]

offer the poor ole breeder some hope of profit? Are foal shares the way to go with all the risks a breeder must take?

What part of the country are you in? There are good values throughout if one shops hard and ignores the Ky hype machine.

[Tesio]

I think, if he's standing in 2008 and the fee remains the same, the most reasonable stud fee is Silver Deputy.

His babies sell well and they can run. $30K is a very reasonable fee; his yearlings averaged over $126K this year. I've heard from some that he may be having fertility issues lately. Not too sure though.

At a lesser fee, I'd take a shot at Whywhywhy. I like his foals and he already has a "big horse".

[larrygene]

In 5 more years you will be looking to Louisiana for that stallion to breed to, whether its to race or to sell. KY is going to hype and price themselves right out of the business because there are no "horseman" running the farms. Wall Street hotshots are calling the shots and setting the prices and most of them don't know what end of a horse it poops through!!!

I hope some of you will still be around in 5 years so I can tell you, "I told you so". Just like I did in April when I predicted Curlin was going to win and win big. And some called me stupid, dumb, and out of my gourd. Well I'm putting my money where my mouth is. I have moved my whole operation to Louisiana because that is where the money will be made in the coming years with thoroughbreds.!!! LA will be a pinhookers heaven. Bigger purses mean better horses. And better horses means better prices for those horses. After 20 years in this game I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. It's bright and it shins on Louisiana. As you can see I live in OK but there is no great future in OK, not like LA.

I was right about Curlin and I'm right about Louisiana...just stick around!

Larrygene

[Rokeby Forever]

Didn't Gentleman move to Louisiana?

[larrygene]

Rok, you're right. But I said in 5 years. Whoever bought Gentleman will either learn from their mistakes or be out of the business. I promise you whoever bought him is not a horseman. They might have a big pocketbook but decisions like that will put them under. And you know I'm right.

[Rokeby Forever]

I'm sitting her laughing, Larry....of all the stallions - Gentleman! LMAO!!!

I kinda like Counter Punch down where you are. I think he's way above the quality (or non quality) of a lot of stallions in Louisiana.

[TomFool]

Louisiana is the place to breed horses with their breeders awards, added money & year round racing with a huge % of state bred races but its going to take more than 5 years to build any sort of stallion & sales market. Yeah you can make money with a La bred but you still cant get a decent price for yearlings mainly because of the huge purse structure for cheaper horses. Why buy a yearling when you can claim a horse for 5-10k & make a very good profit fast? The young stallions in La still have almost zero commerical appeal & there are too many studs in the state as every farm is trying to get those stallion awards. You know as well as I that locals in La are not going to pay big stud fees which is anything over $3,500. Look at Lion Tamer a G1 winner in his first season covered 34 mares. Rulers Court at 2k covered only 26. Those are a couple of new quality potential sires & tell me how they are going to make it with that lack of support & they are going to compete at the Ky sales, ha. I share the enthusiasm & optimism about breeding horses in La but the only ones that will make any real noise in any sales ring will be those by Ky stallions.

[TomFool]

I believe if your breeding to sell you should almost always go with young mares to first year sires & hope to get a colt. You cant really drop the ball unless you just get really unlucky if you breed more for conformation. Young stakes mares & or high sale individuals & consistantly high sales families by popular sires is what it takes in the sales game. Sounds easy enough huh, its just having the bankroll to buy & turnover those type mares is most peoples problem. Anyone with any knowledge of this game at all can predict that horses like Strong Hope, Purge & Roman Ruler are the types to breed to for sales horses. They are in the range that they are not priced too high to give you a real chance at a profit & could still give you a homerun type sales horse. Last year Bluegrass Cat, First Samuri, Rockport Harbor & Henny Hughes seemed to fit that bill. This years new group seems to have alot of throwouts such as all the turf horses. I would also throw out Jazil & Stevie Wonderboy among others. Street Sense is too high. I love Hard Spun & think he will throw racehorses but I'm not so sure they will sell great from his stud fee. Corinthian is a nobrainer & should be super hot. Any Given Saturday even with his lackluster Classic should be priced right for a profitable sales sire. Discreet Cat is one I dont know he could really go either way. Even though he goes in on a sour note & Forestry is pretty dead right now I would still have to think if you had a really nice foal by him it would do very well in the sales .

[hpkingjr]

When Papa Bear (KY) and Mama Bear (FL) and Baby Bears (CA & NY) all say SOMEONE HAS BEEN EATING MY PORRIDGE, I'll believe you're Goldy Locks (LA).

[madelyn]

larrygene, last time I checked Wall Street was in New York, not KY. And there weren't any farms in KY with publicly traded stocks. I can't imagine what on earth a "New York hotshot" would be doing in KY except watching races.

Your enthusiasm is amazing. But claiming that Louisiana is going to replace Kentucky at the core of the Thoroughbred breeding industry is rather like saying that Wall Street is moving to DesMoines, which will replace New York as the home of the Stock Exchange.

[ZZTOPPERS]

Jump Start at $10K is an absolute steal, and Artie Schiller at Hurricane Hall is a pretty good bet at $15K.