Rock And Roll to Ontario...WHY?
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Rock And Roll to Ontario...WHY?
Just got a notice in the mail, seems someone got the idea to move ROCK AND ROLL to Ontario. A stallion who stands in NY for 1,000 is now being offered to Ontario breeders for only $3,000... This guy has been a failure at stud and only managed to attract FIVE mares last year. Could this be someones idea of a joke?
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imnumberjuan
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The exchange rate is not even factored in here. They are moving this horse and asking 3x his current fee. What I'm saying is that if he is a failure in NY and only able to attract 5 mares last year then WHY do they think that he'd be a good fit in Ontario at three times the price?
I am just so sick of not having more than a handful of choices for my mares at home. I get excited when a notice comes re: a new stallion, only to find Rock And Roll who I wouldn't breed to at any price.
I am just so sick of not having more than a handful of choices for my mares at home. I get excited when a notice comes re: a new stallion, only to find Rock And Roll who I wouldn't breed to at any price.
With MSW races at Woodbine restricted to Ontario Sired horses running for 66k, exchange rate being where it is, and an abundance of stallions being available for cheap, why wouldnt you expect a bundle of stallions to move to Ontario. If the owners get a handful of outside mares to help with the costs thats just a bonus.
I don't know if he is that bad of a stallion....just totally not commercial. I believe he is a complete outcross to Mr. P and Northern D and, of course, was sound on the track.
My mare was bred to him before I bought her and that kid was an open MSW winner and just took a NY Bred allowance race last month. I believe he is close to earning six figures.
I am not sure what his overall numbers are but for some reason certain stallions never get a fair shake. I know he was owned by a small breeder not the Ramseys and, thus, could not support him the way the Ramseys did with catienus and his 100+ mares they sent his way....
If you own a stallion and do not have big time connections it is hard to get them the quality mares. We don't know if he stinks yet or not as he hasn't truly been given a shot.
I would take a peek at him as sometimes things are not what they seem....
My mare was bred to him before I bought her and that kid was an open MSW winner and just took a NY Bred allowance race last month. I believe he is close to earning six figures.
I am not sure what his overall numbers are but for some reason certain stallions never get a fair shake. I know he was owned by a small breeder not the Ramseys and, thus, could not support him the way the Ramseys did with catienus and his 100+ mares they sent his way....
If you own a stallion and do not have big time connections it is hard to get them the quality mares. We don't know if he stinks yet or not as he hasn't truly been given a shot.
I would take a peek at him as sometimes things are not what they seem....
Got the same advertisement in the mail today.
It says he's standing at Serenity Stables in Tottenham.
Who brought Rock and Roll in? I would be interested in going to look although with his record not neccasairly to breed.
It says he's standing at Serenity Stables in Tottenham.
Legal Jousting (Indian Ridge X In Anticipation - Sadler's Wells) standing at Kingsgate Stud
The stud analysis on the promo page that was sent out states that the horse entered stud in 2002 and that his first foals will be 2 yr olds of 2005... ok, it's Nov of 2007 now... how about some current stats on those 2 year olds from 2005, 2006 & 2007?
As far as I can tell, he has had 75 foals of racing age and 16 of those are winners of about 500,000 lifetime. Pokeyman, you must have a pretty nice mare if she produced a six figure earner.
I like the race record of the horse and he is an attractive animal but the fact that they want 3x his current stud fee makes me laugh. I can go to Bold n Flashy or Whiskey Wisdom for the same money and get alot more horse.
As far as I can tell, he has had 75 foals of racing age and 16 of those are winners of about 500,000 lifetime. Pokeyman, you must have a pretty nice mare if she produced a six figure earner.
I like the race record of the horse and he is an attractive animal but the fact that they want 3x his current stud fee makes me laugh. I can go to Bold n Flashy or Whiskey Wisdom for the same money and get alot more horse.
Hi, Jane! I can tell you that he stood at stud this year with a very, very small farm....just regular people like you and I. The couple own maybe a handful of mares.
Unless you have the big bucks to promote a stallion and get connected with the right people, it is hard to let a stallion get a chance.
Plus, I belive American Chance was still in NY when he entered stud. AC was a FABULOUS and completely underrated sire. So, most people wanting the Cure the Blues would go to AC. Also, Take Me Out, another Cure the Blues, was established as well. So, it was probably hard for him to compete being of outcross bloodlines in a state that already had 2 established outcross stallions from the same sire line. Of course, I could be completely wrong but this is just my two cents!
My mare is actually nothing spectacular for KY standards but seems to do ok Regionally. I am sure she would have been very, very much in your price range!
Unless you have the big bucks to promote a stallion and get connected with the right people, it is hard to let a stallion get a chance.
Plus, I belive American Chance was still in NY when he entered stud. AC was a FABULOUS and completely underrated sire. So, most people wanting the Cure the Blues would go to AC. Also, Take Me Out, another Cure the Blues, was established as well. So, it was probably hard for him to compete being of outcross bloodlines in a state that already had 2 established outcross stallions from the same sire line. Of course, I could be completely wrong but this is just my two cents!
My mare is actually nothing spectacular for KY standards but seems to do ok Regionally. I am sure she would have been very, very much in your price range!
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Intrinsic Worth
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Intrinsic Worth wrote:I worked with Rock and Roll's dam, Secrets Halo, and I hope her temperament doesn't pass down through him. She was one mean and vicious mare. She died last year.
it does pass on
.......ive seen some of his babies and there an ornery lot...funny you say that because me and a friend were just talking about this same subject last week.A great man cannot help himself," "He can see things that other men cannot see themselves, and his greatness lies in doing whatever is necessary to make his vision real
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Intrinsic Worth
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I've worked with many of Secret's Halo's offspring. Generally, her colts were much easier to deal with. I thought her 2001 colt, Dark Lightning, would be the devil incarnate with Storm Cat as his sire. He was actually really friendly and easy to be around. He had a lot of OCD issues and never amounted to much on the track.
Her 2002 filly by A.P. Indy (Secret Aura) was wicked. She would squeal and run behind Secret's whenever she thought something was going to be done with her. I absolutely hated her! She had her own growth problems and went for months with all four legs stocked up as a baby.
Mt. Wavery was really friendly, but had shin problems.
Altitude was as bad as Secret's as a broodmare. Just as mean as her, which was ususual since Sky Classic's tended to be very friendly. Goes to show how dominant the evil streak is.
Her 2002 filly by A.P. Indy (Secret Aura) was wicked. She would squeal and run behind Secret's whenever she thought something was going to be done with her. I absolutely hated her! She had her own growth problems and went for months with all four legs stocked up as a baby.
Mt. Wavery was really friendly, but had shin problems.
Altitude was as bad as Secret's as a broodmare. Just as mean as her, which was ususual since Sky Classic's tended to be very friendly. Goes to show how dominant the evil streak is.
All men are equal on the turf - or under it.
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Jenny
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We knew about Rock n roll coming in Sept. The guy who is standing him bred to GF this year and has another booked to him for this year already.
I agree with pokeyman. I don't think people realize how hard it is to get a stallion going if you are not a big farm. Look at some of the big farms in Ontario getting tons of mares to not the greatest stallions. Philanthropist got 60 last year. Rock n Roll made 3x the money he did! That new Forrestry stallion got like 120, I don't think he broke 300k. Ontario gets the bad stallions because people still breed to them!!! I have posted about this before. Long time clients just go to whoever they are told to go to. That is how it works at the big farms. that is why it is so hard for people like us to get them going. I was very happy with the 18 mares we booked last year. Although we had a couple stubborn ones that would not cycle so that cut us to 16. That is damn good for our area. Hopefully we will do the same or better for the second year crop. I would love to send GF to a big farm but have you seen the fees!!!!!!
anyway now that I have had my rant check out our new website stonebriarstables.ca I designed it myself!!!
I agree with pokeyman. I don't think people realize how hard it is to get a stallion going if you are not a big farm. Look at some of the big farms in Ontario getting tons of mares to not the greatest stallions. Philanthropist got 60 last year. Rock n Roll made 3x the money he did! That new Forrestry stallion got like 120, I don't think he broke 300k. Ontario gets the bad stallions because people still breed to them!!! I have posted about this before. Long time clients just go to whoever they are told to go to. That is how it works at the big farms. that is why it is so hard for people like us to get them going. I was very happy with the 18 mares we booked last year. Although we had a couple stubborn ones that would not cycle so that cut us to 16. That is damn good for our area. Hopefully we will do the same or better for the second year crop. I would love to send GF to a big farm but have you seen the fees!!!!!!
anyway now that I have had my rant check out our new website stonebriarstables.ca I designed it myself!!!
Your website is very nice Jenny, love the look of your arena.
I am sure that it is not easy to get a stallion going in any market. As a breeder I feel that I need to make the best choices possible for my mares and when I see a stallion like Rock And Roll come into my market area I see a red flag.
This horse bred -
53 mares in 2002
39 mares in 2003
27 mares in 2004
24 mares in 2005
7 mares in 2006
5 mares in 2007
All that time he stood in NY which has a similar structure to Ontario as far as state bred racing incentives. Even with that edge only 16 winners from foals of racing age. Hummmm, not the kind of stats I'm looking for anywhere.
Now someone gets the idea that Ontario market is clueless and if they send out promotional material that is at least 3 years old and triple his current stud fee... maybe no one will notice that the horse is failing and in fact line up to breed to him.
I am sure that it is not easy to get a stallion going in any market. As a breeder I feel that I need to make the best choices possible for my mares and when I see a stallion like Rock And Roll come into my market area I see a red flag.
This horse bred -
53 mares in 2002
39 mares in 2003
27 mares in 2004
24 mares in 2005
7 mares in 2006
5 mares in 2007
All that time he stood in NY which has a similar structure to Ontario as far as state bred racing incentives. Even with that edge only 16 winners from foals of racing age. Hummmm, not the kind of stats I'm looking for anywhere.
Now someone gets the idea that Ontario market is clueless and if they send out promotional material that is at least 3 years old and triple his current stud fee... maybe no one will notice that the horse is failing and in fact line up to breed to him.
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Mood Swings
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I too can understand that the stallion business is tough. It is an extremely competitive venture. Mare owners are going to be very picky as there is only one mare and literally hundreds of stallions to choose from. Only the best will do. From a commercial standpoint "R&R" (that's not rest and relaxation ) is going to have a tough go in Ontario. I say that only because of his current lack of success and the very small number of mares covered in the last few years.
He is competing with tried and true stallions Ascot Knight $2500 and Whiskey Wisdom $3500.
) is going to have a tough go in Ontario. I say that only because of his current lack of success and the very small number of mares covered in the last few years.
He is competing with tried and true stallions Ascot Knight $2500 and Whiskey Wisdom $3500.
"People come and go but horses leave hoofprints on your heart"