Giant's Causeway a best bargin at 125k?!?!

[oliverstoned]

In todays TDN Bill Oppenheim says so. What a crock.

[Mahubah]

Is anyone else standing at that fee other than Mr. Greeley? I know both Seeking the Gold and Gone West were advertised for $125,000 last year; haven't seen any figures for 2008. Both have much more consistent records than Giant's Causeway, but they're both getting on in years.

[sparta]

You can make a good argument at 125K if you're a breed-to-sell. His mares and weanings sold pretty well at Keeneland, and if the dollar stays low, he'll probably maintain those good numbers for a year or two minimum due to high interest from overseas buyers.

Breed-to-race is an altogether different story, at least from my perspective.

[Rokeby Forever]

He's a bonafide turf sire. If you think that he's worth $125K compared to other turf sires out there, go for it. Just remember - at $300K, he got much stronger books than he's going to get in 2008. Will he sustain whatever numbers he achieved with a weaker book than when he stood for $300K?

[bdw0617]

He's a bonafide turf sire. If you think that he's worth $125K compared to other turf sires out there, go for it. Just remember - at $300K, he got much stronger books than he's going to get in 2008. Will he sustain whatever numbers he achieved with a weaker book than when he stood for $300K?

Here is the thing. He is a good sire. he is a good TURF sire. In america a good turf sire....ah...

Smart Strike is just an additional 25k and he broke the earnings record last year. Value huh?

If you want a good turfing, El Prado and Rahy are better values.

[chicago78]

Though I wouldn't call him an exceptional value, the market for a horse like him is now global. Most of the major breeders in the world have farms, or at least relationships with Kentucky farms, and they can breed to a horse like Giant's Causeway if they have a mare that is right for him. Many sires have stood their entire careers in the US, while having their most prolific success abroad. Nureyev, Diesis, and Lear Fan are just a few of many examples. The $125k fee is in line for a sire like Giant's Causeway, if for nothing else because of the weak dollar. If you look at other Coolmore stallions, Giant's Causeway is basically half the fee of Danehill Dancer, 45% of the fee of Montjeu, and though Sadler's Wells and Galileo are private, he's certainly well below both of them in stud fee.

Shamardal, Aragorn, and First Samurai all prove that he can sire top class horses, though he has gotten an exceptional book of mares. Darley loved him until they got in a pissing contest with Coolmore, as they're standing Shamardal in the UK.

[bdw0617]

I wouldn't even buy that arguement, that he is more value than danehill dancer, monteju or others. while he is CHEAPER, he is not even in the same strosphere as far as stallions are concerned.

, if for nothing else because of the weak dollar

while he is a BETTER value than he was 2 years ago, he is not GREAT value and is far from being the BEST value

Breed-to-race is an altogether different story, at least from my perspective.

You cannot talk about one without eventually talking about the other. Just ask Fu Peg. And if racing records weren't of any consequcne, forestry would be standing for 200k and Giant's Causeway still for 300k


for say.. Montjeu's price he has produced the one of the best horses regardless of sex, surface and distance in the last 15 years in hurricane run. Authorized is better than anything that has came out of Giant's Causeway.



The Sadler's Well's line of horses make better sires


But I come back to El Prado becuause I am comparing american turf sires to american turf sires.

With El Prado, you get a sire who has already lead the nation in earnings once, OVERALL earnings, not just turf. His horses are more verstile. You can get a sprinter like Kitten's Joy, a classic horse like MEDAGLIA D ORO. You can get a turf horse (ovbiously) like Artie Shiller. His horses sale well if notjust as well as Giant's Causeway's.


El prado

685 f, 539 r, 403 w, 60 SW
AEI 2.23, CI 1.74

Giant's Causeway

457 f, 282 r, 147 w, 20 SW
AEI 2.19, CI 3.69, AWD 8.11

Now come again?


and the money you can save by going with El Prado is enough to bred to another VERY good sire like say Cherokee Run. it's not a small amount of money. it's 50 grand.

[Rokeby Forever]

I think it's very telling that Coolmore hasn't supported Giant's Causeway at the sales AT ALL.

In 2006, Coolmore bought only 2 yearlings - one for $275,000 and one for $425,000. In 2007, Coolmore again bought only 2 yearlings - one for $370,000 and one at Tattersalls for USD$534,000. I don't think it sends out a real strong message to the market when Coolmore hasn't even made an attempt to boost Giant's Causeway's sales average.

[chicago78]

bdw0617 Posted: Wed Nov 28, 2007 9:32 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wouldn't even buy that arguement, that he is more value than danehill dancer, monteju or others. while he is CHEAPER, he is not even in the same strosphere as far as stallions are concerned.

Nobody said he was a better value or a better stud than Danehill Dancer or Montjeu. He's half the price. So of course he's cheaper. I was arguing that his price is in line, when compared to the other Coolmore, and actually other studs around the world.

I also wouldn't be surprised if they don't get as good a book in Kentucky this year if they send the horse back to Ireland for a season or two.

I know the pitfalls of Giant's Causeway. We've believed in him since he was retired. We bred one mare to him, and the colt has now run like 11 races without breaking his maiden, thank goodness he got claimed in his recent start. We also bought a real nice looking filly for a lot of money that is now 3, has at least broken her maiden at Churchill, but didn't do much against winners at Arlington. She's now getting a rest, hopefully she'll grow and be a decent 4 year old, but she isn't exactly what we were hoping for when we bought her.

Even with all that, I'd still breed to him if a mare fit him properly.

But I come back to El Prado becuause I am comparing american turf sires to american turf sires.

With El Prado, you get a sire who has already lead the nation in earnings once, OVERALL earnings, not just turf. His horses are more verstile. You can get a sprinter like Kitten's Joy, a classic horse like MEDAGLIA D ORO. You can get a turf horse (ovbiously) like Artie Shiller. His horses sale well if notjust as well as Giant's Causeway's.

El Prado stood last year for an advertised fee of $125k. It was a big jump from anything they had stood him before. Thisyear he's at 75k. Obviously, Adena couldn't attract the type of mares they wanted at those prices, and they have him priced more competitively this year. If Giant's Causeway has a poor 2008, he'll probably be cheaper next year. These people put a lot of thought into their stud fees. It makes sense for breeders to shop for value. And by the way, Kitten's Joy was about the furthest thing from a sprinter I've seen. Good horse though.

Also you're never going to get a European breeder to send a horse to Kentucky to breed to El Prado There are tons of options for sons of Sadler's Wells in Europe. Here, we just have El Prado, and the 3 young sires, Sligo Bay, Powerscourt, and Perfect Soul. Giant's Causeway is probably Storm Cat's best son at stud, and definitely has a turf pedigree, being out of Rahy and then Roberto mares, so he will get the occasional European mare....

[oliverstoned]

You have to look at GC like a stock with a sharp downward trend, chances are he will contiue this. How is that value when you go to sell you yearling and his 2010 advertised fee is say 75k. The reason he has had any success to date is because of his HUGE books of quality mares he has gotten in the past. Can you imagine what self-made stallions such as Smart Stike, El Prado or Rahy would of done with those mares? His numbers just plain stink across the board.

[Tappiano]

Actually, if he has another poor year at the sales he winds up being moved.

[LB]

Actually, if he has another poor year at the sales he winds up being moved.

Not while he's #5 on the general sires list.

[Ill-bred]

GC is NOT a good commercial sire in America.

If there's any value, it's breed-to-race, but I think his fee needs to come down another 20-40%.

[Intrinsic Worth]

Actually, if he has another poor year at the sales he winds up being moved.

They are still keeping FuPeg with his miserable stats, so I think they will hold on to GC for a while longer. I do believe, however, he would be better suited back in Ireland.

[Galileo]

It is remarkable how his first crop in Europe was so impressive but equally there were signs of fragility in even his best horses.

I would imagine Coolmore will wait and see how Footstepsinthesand does in the next couple of years before bringing Giants Causeway back to Ireland. Does he shuttle anymore?