Stallions that offer value?

[Keith]

What stallions offer value?

Arch- $25,000
Attilia's Storm- $3,500
Concerto-$7,500
Congrats- $12,500
Dixieland Band-$50,000 10% stakes winners
Don't Get Mad- $3,000
Evansville Slew- $2,500
Exchange Rate-$25,000
Fusaichi Rock Star- $500
Giacomo- $12,500
Grindstone- $3,500
Gulch- $20,000
Holy Bull- $15,000
Jade Hunter- $5,000
Jazil- $12,500
Kafwain- $10,000
Langfuhr-$25,000 Sire of 50 SW's and stud fee less than Lawyer Ron
Lite The Fuse- $3,500
Lycius- $2,000
Marquetry- $7,500
Mass Media- $5,000
Max's Pal- $2,500
Medallist- $5,000
Montbrook- $10,000
Noble Causeway- $5,000
Northern Afleet- $10,000
Olmodavor- $5,000
Oratory- $5,000
Pioneering- $5,000 8% Stakes Winners
Pro Prado-$1,500
Rahy-$60,000 sire of 9% Stakes winners
Royal Academy- $15,000
Senor Swinger- $4,000
Silver Deputy- $30,000
Smoke Glacken- $25,000
Slew City Slew- $6,000
Stroll- $2,500
Sun King- $10,000
Tribal Rule-$5,000
Wilko- $10,000

With Storm Cat and Giant's Causeway coming down in price but still unaffordable to most what stallions offer the best value for your mare?

Keith

[oliverstoned]

Hmm.... from this list I'll take Pionerring, Evansville Slew, Slew City Slew, Tribal Rule, and Concerto. I'd also like to add Kipling whose done quite nice with what he has gotten, and soon enough you will have to pay much more for his brother Court Vision.

[jacksontyger]

You asked so I will give you my humble opinion. Of those stallions, none give the breeder true value and a good chance to make money on the foal. Breeding horses is a terrible investment and really is a labor of love. If you double the stud fee and add $15K that is a guide of what the foal would need to sale for to be profitable. Not many if any on your list will have a median sales price over that number. If you want to see some bad investments look at the last 4 books of Keeneland November and about every stallion you have listed had some horses in there selling at fire sale prices. That said here is my opinion on some you have listed and a few others. The bottomline is stud fees are too high but somebody (us) continue to pay them.

Arch-hot for a year and some Euro interest but will go cold again if nothing
hits soon

Dixieland Band-can you get to for less? Some of his fillies bring good
money.

Silver Deputy-one of the better "values" if fertility ok

Bernstein-becoming better "value" as stud fee comes down esp like at 15K

Exchange Rate-will be interesting to follow. Sales are disappointing but gets some racehorses.

Gulch-if mare fits I would use

Holy Bull-gets racehorses not sales horses.

Langfuhr-see Holy Bull

Royal Academy-almost bred a young mare to him this year. Gives a mare a chance.

Smoke Glacken-OK

Rahy-I have one going to him this year. I hope he offers "value".

Grand Slam and Strong Hope-sell well if you have the right mare

JT

[Keith]

Weekend Surprise is a goldmine when it comes to sire lines. Kipling is a grandson of Weekend Surprise who is the dam of A.P. Indy, Summer Squall, and Honor Grades. Kipling is the same cross as Thunder Gulch as they are both by Gulch and out of Storm Bird mares. Court Vision is a really nice horse. Kipling's sire Gulch sure offers value at $20,000.

Keith

[Keith]

Breeding for the comercial market is very risky. How long will people continue to breed to new stallions whose stud fees drop dramatically year after year? The proven stallion is always your best choice and at the best price. How long will people continue to pay big dollars for good looking foals out of well bred unraced mares who are full sisters or half sisters to major black type winners.
I have a Siphon mare who boke her maiden in a state bred Maiden Special Weight at Aqueduct. She is by Siphon and has the same second dam as Sizzling Dish who is also by Siphon. Sizzling Dish sold for $520,000 at Keeneland and she only won a Maiden Special Weight. Jose a half brother to Sizzling Dish by Mazel Trick sold for $535,000 and wound up as a Charles Town multiple stakes placed gelding who won $242,796. You never know. Look at Kids Today a Siphon mare who never hit the board in 11 starts sold for $7,000 in foal to Include and the resulting foal wound up be stakes winning and graded stakes placed filly Runway Rosie.

Keith

[bdw0617]

Keith,


you seem to know siphon pretty well. what do you think about im as a sire? I find him pretty intersting. At keeneland last yearthere was a filly yearling who has about a royal bloodlines as you can have at least on the damside... she's by Final Legacy who in turn is by terlingua, making her well... a grandaughter of the great terlingua for one but also a close reliative to questionably the biggest sire on earth storm cat. while final legacy couldn't run away from a slug, that's still pretty royal bloodlines.

anyway getting to my point. this filly in question at the sale happened to be by siphon and it's like every buyer there turned away from her because of it, she sold for 50k. a grandauter of terlingua should bring more than 50k.

and get this.... SHE CAN RUN!!! broke her maiden at first asking at santa anita in a 2F race and did it somewhat nicely. will be a stakes filly, i have no doubt about it. bTW the filly in question is Ranchy. She is already running in stakes (someone needs to update her file BTW) and was nosed out of being stakes place last out.

[Keith]

I think Siphon was breed to some of the best mares his first couple of years and has not turned out to be a very good sire but he is a useful sire and has potential to be a good broodmare sire where he was bred to some very nice mares. A few people have overpaid for Siphon two year olds. They obviously must have early speed as they have brought good money at the two year old training sales. My Siphon mare had lots of early speed at Aqueduct and Belmont as a two year old. As far as a sire I think he is average.

Keith

[Rokeby Forever]

Why isn't Victory Gallop on the list?

[Prairie]

Why isn't Victory Gallop on the list?

Good question! I love that horse and have been impressed by a number of youngsters sired by him.

[oliverstoned]

UPDATE: Kipling to stand at Crestwood in Kentucky for $7500 ($4000 less value).