Future Storm
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Future Storm
Anyone know anything about him? What is the farm like where he stands? he was quite a sire in Florida but seems to have fallen off in Calif.? Poorer quality mares or less numbers perhaps? Any ideas.
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fastappy
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Future Storm
Future Storm started out strong, having gotten Futural (1996 o/o Dixieland Band mare who was a half to 2 stakes winners including G3 placed) and later Stormy Roman (1999, o/o a multiple stakes producing Stalwart mare). Future Storm undoubtedly got better mares before coming to California, in 2001 but he was well received in California.
When he left Florida he had bred just 36 mares in 2000. In California, 2001 he got 65 mares, 64 in 2002, & 56 in 2003. In 2007 he got 21 mares. In the beginning he was a hot commodity as were many Storm Cat sons coming to regional markets, thus stallions like unraced Distinctive Cat drew large books. Despite a good start by the aforementioned stakes winners and decent support in'California, Future Storm was unable to replicate those earlier successes.
I don't agree that California is the undoing of many decent sires (imports), I think most (Future Storm being an exception) are proven failures and are then expected to somehow improve given lower quality books than they were previousl afforded.
Future Storm is an enigma in regard to why his performance trailed off, and as recent breedings indicate, support will falter when the stallion fails to consistently come up with stakes winners.
Future Storm is currently ranked 44th on the California General Sires List (BH thru 15 Dec 07) with 68 starters 26 winners (38%), and earnings of $726,950 ($10,690 avg. per starter/current year).
Hal Phoenix had promoted the stallion well, and Future Storm had to have gotten a few decent mares among the couple of hundred bred since arriving in California.
When he left Florida he had bred just 36 mares in 2000. In California, 2001 he got 65 mares, 64 in 2002, & 56 in 2003. In 2007 he got 21 mares. In the beginning he was a hot commodity as were many Storm Cat sons coming to regional markets, thus stallions like unraced Distinctive Cat drew large books. Despite a good start by the aforementioned stakes winners and decent support in'California, Future Storm was unable to replicate those earlier successes.
I don't agree that California is the undoing of many decent sires (imports), I think most (Future Storm being an exception) are proven failures and are then expected to somehow improve given lower quality books than they were previousl afforded.
Future Storm is an enigma in regard to why his performance trailed off, and as recent breedings indicate, support will falter when the stallion fails to consistently come up with stakes winners.
Future Storm is currently ranked 44th on the California General Sires List (BH thru 15 Dec 07) with 68 starters 26 winners (38%), and earnings of $726,950 ($10,690 avg. per starter/current year).
Hal Phoenix had promoted the stallion well, and Future Storm had to have gotten a few decent mares among the couple of hundred bred since arriving in California.
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Hold Your Peace
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He was given every chance to succeed in Florida as he was supported with some very good mares his first few years, but despite coming up with a few good ones he just didn't make the cut.
On the plus side for Future Storm, his daughters are proving to be very good broodmares.
With not a lot of horses of racing age out of Future Storm mares, his daughters are already represented by five or six stakes winners including:
Saoirse Abu, a 2yo Mr. Greeley filly, was a Group I winner against males this year in Ireland and big things are expected from her next year.
Running Lass, a Running Stag filly, has won or placed in something like 20 stakes including at least one graded placing and she has earned close to $500k to date.
Drums Of Thunder, a Concerto colt, was a 2yo stakes winner and placed in the graded Holy Bull Stakes earlier this year.
On the plus side for Future Storm, his daughters are proving to be very good broodmares.
With not a lot of horses of racing age out of Future Storm mares, his daughters are already represented by five or six stakes winners including:
Saoirse Abu, a 2yo Mr. Greeley filly, was a Group I winner against males this year in Ireland and big things are expected from her next year.
Running Lass, a Running Stag filly, has won or placed in something like 20 stakes including at least one graded placing and she has earned close to $500k to date.
Drums Of Thunder, a Concerto colt, was a 2yo stakes winner and placed in the graded Holy Bull Stakes earlier this year.
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fastappy
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Future Storm
That's good information to hear, on his broodmare prospects. Storm Cat is recognized as an excellent broodmare sire and it looks like he passing on the influence through some of his sons.
Future Storm
Future is listed for sale if you look in the thoroughbredtimes stallion classifieds.The person that has him listed for the owner is a friend of mine in Ocala.The owner have sold the farm and selling all the horses.I was also sent a list of (29)mares that they are selling off.Some are carrying foals for him.They also have some of his daughters for sale.Please send a pm if you want to be put in contact with the lady handling the sale of the horses. 
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fastappy
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[quote="zinn21"]Wow, Hal Phenix sold his farm and is getting out? That's news to me.
Regarding Futural, he's never received anything but cheap mares here in Ca. Quality mares from running families are scarce out here.[/quote]
I just ran Future Storm for progeny because as I surmised, it is unlikely that none of the couple of hundred mares he had been bred to were decent mares. The very first progeny listed on Del Mar Pedigree data base is "A Little Bit More" o/o Yellow Corn (Moscow Ballet) who has an SSI of 3.06 and is a half to three stakes winners and herself a multiple stakes producer.
I believe based on the size of his books, Future Storm had been given good support in California, he simply was unable to replicate earlier successes, which is unfortunate.
Regarding Futural, he's never received anything but cheap mares here in Ca. Quality mares from running families are scarce out here.[/quote]
I just ran Future Storm for progeny because as I surmised, it is unlikely that none of the couple of hundred mares he had been bred to were decent mares. The very first progeny listed on Del Mar Pedigree data base is "A Little Bit More" o/o Yellow Corn (Moscow Ballet) who has an SSI of 3.06 and is a half to three stakes winners and herself a multiple stakes producer.
I believe based on the size of his books, Future Storm had been given good support in California, he simply was unable to replicate earlier successes, which is unfortunate.
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Rokeby Forever
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fastappy wrote:I believe based on the size of his books, Future Storm had been given good support in California, he simply was unable to replicate earlier successes, which is unfortunate.
Hiya Fastappy! Do you get the feeling that California is a curse for stallions?
What synthetics are to California racing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gb0mxcpPOU
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fastappy
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Curse of California
[quote="Rokeby Forever"][quote="fastappy"]I believe based on the size of his books, Future Storm had been given good support in California, he simply was unable to replicate earlier successes, which is unfortunate.[/quote]
Hiya Fastappy! Do you get the feeling that California is a curse for stallions?[/quote]
Hi ya Roke!
No, I don't believe California is a curse for incoming stallions. A lot of Kentucky rejects are shipped to California, but the breeders are increasingly catching on. California has improved significantly in the quality of stallions, though the broodmares and their owners have been much slower to upgrade. The better stallions are generally supported accordingly, if fairly priced.
I do think we have more that our share of sub par stallions and mares diluting the pool of quality horses produced in California.
California has 365 listed stallions of which 80 are deceased or pensioned. In 2007, 255 stallions were bred to 4,447 mares. I took the top 22 stallions by size of their 2007 book, starting with Tribal Rule (132) and ending with Game Plan (54). Culmatively, those 22 stallions got 1,721 mares or 38% of the mares. That leaves an average of 11 mares per stallion for the remaining 233 stallions.
I think the trend is likely to increase, with the better stallions increasingly getting the better and larger books, squeezing out the lesser stallions. I've also noticed a lot more horses on the foal showcases of CTBA, TIA, & Harris Farms being by Kentucky sires, leading me to believe California is becoming increasingly competitive. I've noticed that Kentucky has priced more stallions for the regional and/or breed to race market.
This year we picked up a few Kentucky duds and I will be interested to see if they are supported or are given the "Gentlemen" treatment.
Yeah, I know! More than you asked for!
Hiya Fastappy! Do you get the feeling that California is a curse for stallions?[/quote]
Hi ya Roke!
No, I don't believe California is a curse for incoming stallions. A lot of Kentucky rejects are shipped to California, but the breeders are increasingly catching on. California has improved significantly in the quality of stallions, though the broodmares and their owners have been much slower to upgrade. The better stallions are generally supported accordingly, if fairly priced.
I do think we have more that our share of sub par stallions and mares diluting the pool of quality horses produced in California.
California has 365 listed stallions of which 80 are deceased or pensioned. In 2007, 255 stallions were bred to 4,447 mares. I took the top 22 stallions by size of their 2007 book, starting with Tribal Rule (132) and ending with Game Plan (54). Culmatively, those 22 stallions got 1,721 mares or 38% of the mares. That leaves an average of 11 mares per stallion for the remaining 233 stallions.
I think the trend is likely to increase, with the better stallions increasingly getting the better and larger books, squeezing out the lesser stallions. I've also noticed a lot more horses on the foal showcases of CTBA, TIA, & Harris Farms being by Kentucky sires, leading me to believe California is becoming increasingly competitive. I've noticed that Kentucky has priced more stallions for the regional and/or breed to race market.
This year we picked up a few Kentucky duds and I will be interested to see if they are supported or are given the "Gentlemen" treatment.
Yeah, I know! More than you asked for!
I still think the overall quality of California mares are inferior to Kentucky (obvious) Florida or even Mid Atlantic stock. Just look at catolog page after catolog page of babies from inferior families in the California sales.
What else can it be when stallion after Stallion enter Ca. and cannot replicate sire production from their former region?
What else can it be when stallion after Stallion enter Ca. and cannot replicate sire production from their former region?
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fastappy
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The Curse of California
Hi Timber!
I guess it would be a matter of what you consider a curse, but consider this, stallions like Beau Genius & Formal Gold came here (Cali) and have done well. California has is the orgin for successful Kentucky stallions, like Tiznow, Indian Charlie, & Officer.
Most stallions will improve given (better mares) Kentucky quality books. Kentucky is the hub of Thoroughbred breeding in N.A. and attracts the best mares and stallions. Does that then mean regional markets like California are a curse?
California primarlily is a breed to race state and has turned out some terrifc horses. The lucrative California breeding incentives is what attracts many of the stallions that come here.
Would In Excess or Bertrando do better in Kentucky? Well yes & no! They would have better books of mares and therefore a likely increase in the quality foals produced. Kentucky however is very commercial oriented and these stallions may not have the commercial appeal, and therefore support.
California is far from being a curse, it is simply regional market, primarily suited for breeding to race. California race horses are becoming increasingly competititive. I would not define it as a curse, because it can't compete with the level of quality in Kentucky. Our top stallions are 20K of less (all one of them). Kentucky bred 21,724 mares in 2007 and California bred 4,447 (down 5.3%), that must be factored as well.
Look at some of the states that are now loosing stallions, like New York. That's my definition of a curse.
I guess it would be a matter of what you consider a curse, but consider this, stallions like Beau Genius & Formal Gold came here (Cali) and have done well. California has is the orgin for successful Kentucky stallions, like Tiznow, Indian Charlie, & Officer.
Most stallions will improve given (better mares) Kentucky quality books. Kentucky is the hub of Thoroughbred breeding in N.A. and attracts the best mares and stallions. Does that then mean regional markets like California are a curse?
California primarlily is a breed to race state and has turned out some terrifc horses. The lucrative California breeding incentives is what attracts many of the stallions that come here.
Would In Excess or Bertrando do better in Kentucky? Well yes & no! They would have better books of mares and therefore a likely increase in the quality foals produced. Kentucky however is very commercial oriented and these stallions may not have the commercial appeal, and therefore support.
California is far from being a curse, it is simply regional market, primarily suited for breeding to race. California race horses are becoming increasingly competititive. I would not define it as a curse, because it can't compete with the level of quality in Kentucky. Our top stallions are 20K of less (all one of them). Kentucky bred 21,724 mares in 2007 and California bred 4,447 (down 5.3%), that must be factored as well.
Look at some of the states that are now loosing stallions, like New York. That's my definition of a curse.
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fastappy
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[quote="zinn21"]I still think the overall quality of California mares are inferior to Kentucky (obvious) Florida or even Mid Atlantic stock. Just look at catolog page after catolog page of babies from inferior families in the California sales.
What else can it be when stallion after Stallion enter Ca. and cannot replicate sire production from their former region?[/quote]
No doubt, the mares are not on par with Kentucky for the aforementioned reasons. Look at the stallions that have come into the state. in general you can't take a horse that's not hitting the pitch in Kentucky, the give him lesser mares and expect equal or better results. As the saying goes, You can't make chicken salad with chicken sh***.
There are of course stallions whose progeny fit California racing surfaces or style (speed) better than the east coast tracks, or the breeding will be a good fit here, but if a horse is not getting the job done with better mares, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect the same of better results with lesser mares.
What else can it be when stallion after Stallion enter Ca. and cannot replicate sire production from their former region?[/quote]
No doubt, the mares are not on par with Kentucky for the aforementioned reasons. Look at the stallions that have come into the state. in general you can't take a horse that's not hitting the pitch in Kentucky, the give him lesser mares and expect equal or better results. As the saying goes, You can't make chicken salad with chicken sh***.
There are of course stallions whose progeny fit California racing surfaces or style (speed) better than the east coast tracks, or the breeding will be a good fit here, but if a horse is not getting the job done with better mares, it doesn't seem reasonable to expect the same of better results with lesser mares.
