who carries the Mr.P line into the next generation? SS or SC

[bdw0617]

Smart Strike being a son of Mr. P, Street Cry being a son of MACHIAVELLIAN who is a son of Mr. P.

right now, IMHO these are the two best mr. p son's at stud with probably seeking the gold a distant third.

I honestly don't know who is overall the better sire. Smart strike really just became fashionable and while I'm a huge fan, look what street sense did last year without anywhere near as many numbers as smart strike. Both are versitle sires, they both can get classic distances, although I haven't seen a street cry want to go short (that truely is nitpicking)

while smart strikes seem to be selling BETTER, neither are storm cat's in the sale's ring. both seem to hold up relativly well considering.

the one arguement for street cry is that he probably has gotten in 1 year a better book than anything smart strike has had for 1 year, probably until at least last year.

So who do you tink will be able to sire sires of the two and pass on the mr. p legacy?

[chicago78]

Of those, it's still very early to say. Street Cry only has had 2 crops to race. For the Mr. Prospector line though, Gone West is definitely a sire of sires though, with Elusive Quality, Mr. Greeley, and Grand Slam all being pretty good sires so far.

[TomFool]

Smart Strike is and always has been a very good sire but as a sire line he leaves alot to be desired. Distorted Humor is a better sire IMO and is probley the best racehorse sire in the US but again as a sire line who knows but I like a son of his better than a son of Smart Strike. Street Cry should not even be in this conversation. Gone West does appear to be the best producing Mr P sire line by a large margin. Fappiano & Forty Niner are close for second as each looked to be the most important sire line period at times but have drifted out but def could come back via Distorted Humor & or a horse like Empire Maker. You can have Seeking the Gold as he has been quiet a bit of a dissapointment to me as a sire of sires and broodmare sire.

[springboro]

Can you guess (or do you know) which son of Mr. P has the highest AEI?




Strategic Mission at Gainesway....5.35 from 3 crops and fifteen foals.

I gotta check that boy out! Those are nice numbers, no doubt skewed by the small crops. He's by Mr. P out of Sultry Sun, thus making him 1/2 to Sultry Song (AEI 1.47) and Solar Splendor.

Crap, what is it about me and turf pedigrees? I must learn to love dirt sprinters!

[bdw0617]

isn't that showing up' sire?

never would have guessed..damn that' shigh.

[Tonno100]

For me this thread exemplfies a massive problem.

You identify Smart Strike and Street Cry as the "two best mr. p son's at stud".

That is utter garbage.

Granted they had the best seasons in 2007, but to say they are THE BEST representatives of the Mr. Prospector sireline is symptomatic of an industry that has trouble remembering what happened last week, let alone last year. You're ignoring the whole of the Fappiano and Gone West lines, both of which are widely identified as having started their own sire dynasties.

Please!!!!

[chicago78]

It's more of a problem with this board than an industry one. I don't think those in the industry are misunderstanding about the prominence of Gone West or Fappiano as the continuation of the Mr. Prospector line. Your point is certainly correct and well taken.

[Rokeby Forever]

No love for Fu Peg and Andromeda's Hero, huh? LOL!

[bdw0617]

For me this thread exemplfies a massive problem.

You identify Smart Strike and Street Cry as the "two best mr. p son's at stud".

That is utter garbage.

Granted they had the best seasons in 2007, but to say they are THE BEST representatives of the Mr. Prospector sireline is symptomatic of an industry that has trouble remembering what happened last week, let alone last year. You're ignoring the whole of the Fappiano and Gone West lines, both of which are widely identified as having started their own sire dynasties.

Please!!!!

It's not utter garbage, it's my opinion and i"m entitled to it, just as you are entitiled to yours.

I am not a fan of the entire gone west clan, a very overrated group of sires. Elusive Quality has sired for the most part, 2 horses worth mentioning and has a 75k stud fee, Mr. Greeley has a 125k stud fee and doesn't have 1 son at stud of any real signifance and only 1 horse to ever break the million dollar earnings mark.


however, in all this no one sesms to understand the question I'm asking.


the ability to lead a line into the next generation, at least my understnaidng of it, is the ability to sire sucessful sires, not just successful racehorses.

While Mr. P imself is a sire of sires, there is no question of that, none of his sons have really been what you would call sires of sires to date. considering he is no longer with us, it's really down to a hanful of horses.

Look at this.. if you look at gone west's top 15 earners, he has one sire of any real signifnace there... and there are only 2 mares in the top 15. that sire being grand slam, who I am a fan of, but not as a sire of sires. If I am looking for a race horse, gone west is a good choice. If I am looking for a sire prospect you can do better. Mr Greeley ha sbeen standing at stud since when, 96? he doesn't have 1 horse that has earned 1 million dollars. if you think of EL CORREDOR as a sire of sires then maybe.



and the question was who can lead us into the NEXT GENERATION, not just who is a decent sire of sires. Seeking the gold is 22 years old. Gulch is 23. ocnsidering the next generation is in the future, I dont' think either will have enough time to produce that many successful sires in that short amount of time to do so.

through his sire line, I reall only see 2 real choices.... smart strike and Street Cry. if I'm wrong show me another sire that is a decdent of him that has time to be a succesful sire of sires.

Fappiano is a sire I liked but he is not around any longer. from that line you have Unbridled's song, who isn't sireing any sires. you have empire maker who I suppose you can throw in there but if you are going to blast me for throwing in street cry, you would hang me for throwing in a sire with 1 crop. elsuive quality has sired no signifcant sires ot date.

[chicago78]

It may be your opinion, but what would lead you to think that Smart Strike or Street Sense can be a sire of sires at this point? They are definitely sires of good racehorses. I don't see why they a son of theirs wouldn't be a good sire. But to name those two, above Unbridled, who has sired Unbridled's Song, Broken Vow, etc, and Gone West, who has had the aforementioned 3 sons that are successful, to me is a little ridiculous. Not to mention Distorted Humor, who is also a Mr. P line. I'd say his sireline is very healthy.

[Rokeby Forever]

through his sire line, I reall only see 2 real choices.... smart strike and Street Cry. if I'm wrong show me another sire that is a decdent of him that has time to be a succesful sire of sires.

As Tom Fool said - Distorted Humor. And, considering that the Sheikh just paid $33 Million for Admire Moon, I'm sure he'll be bred to plenty of female families that can come up with a sire in time. Also in Japan, one can also argue that the future seems pretty bright for King Kamehameha - his babies are selling like crazy.

[bdw0617]

It may be your opinion, but what would lead you to think that Smart Strike or Street Sense can be a sire of sires at this point? They are definitely sires of good racehorses. I don't see why they a son of theirs wouldn't be a good sire. But to name those two, above Unbridled, who has sired Unbridled's Song, Broken Vow, etc, and Gone West, who has had the aforementioned 3 sons that are successful, to me is a little ridiculous. Not to mention Distorted Humor, who is also a Mr. P line. I'd say his sireline is very healthy.

I never said neither was, I said which had the better chance. both might flop as sire of sires. that is up for discussion but that is the point of making a thread in the first place, to discuss it.
\

I do like unbridled as well, I really like unbridled as far as siring successful sires. however the whole next generation thing again. he has sired horses that sired for this generation.

1 sire does not make a sire a successful sire of sires (forty niner). Distored humor while aGREAT sire has not sired a s uccessful sire yet.

[bdw0617]

through his sire line, I reall only see 2 real choices.... smart strike and Street Cry. if I'm wrong show me another sire that is a decdent of him that has time to be a succesful sire of sires.

As Tom Fool said - Distorted Humor. And, considering that the Sheikh just paid $33 Million for Admire Moon, I'm sure he'll be bred to plenty of female families that can come up with a sire in time. Also in Japan, one can also argue that the future seems pretty bright for King Kamehameha - his babies are selling like crazy.

well if you are going to include admire moon who is still technically a race horse, you have to include empire maker as well.

[Rokeby Forever]

I think that Empire Maker has every right to be a sire - it's just a matter of whether or not his offspring inherit the physical problems that he had. I think the same can be said of Saarland.

[DoubleDownStables]

NOT FOR LOVE