Good Luck to everyone with your stallion choices.....

[jacksontyger]

Unfortunately, we small breeders are all going to need to make very wise decisions going forward in this business. At the just completed KeeJan sale 50% of yearlings did not make the stud fee and 32% of mares did not make the stud fee of the stallion they were bred to according to Bill O. This only means the stud fee and not ALL the other expenses including the cost of the mare ect. Pretty frightening. I saw an earlier report that for the 2007 over 50% of yearlings sold for less than $20K the estimated cost to raise them not including stud fees. I have decided to leave one mare at home since I can't think of a stallion in her price range that can give me a 50:50 chance at a profit. I just went over one of my consignor's bills and loved the $55 immunostimulator shot and the $37/ a day for medications at the sale on a freaking weanling. This is a tough business... good luck to all....

[serenarider]

GOOD GOD 37 a day for meds. was your weanling even on meds?

[larrygene]

And JT is a horse vet!! No one is safe.

[jacksontyger]

That is what really hurt! I know the real cost of the medication. I would not have authorized any of the extras if consulted.

[larrygene]

JT, we have a mutual friend that moved from outside Jackson to outside Lexington about a year ago and he says there's nothing but crooks and thieves in the horse business in KY. I told Jerry there has to be some honest people but the more you tell of your experiences the more I'm beginning to believe Jerry. Are we too trusting or do we not know the rules of the game we are in??

Everyone I've dealt with in KY has been pretty straight and honest. Maybe just luck but I've never felt shafted. As they say" buyer beware", maybe should be " horse owner beware".

Larrygene

[habitat]

jacksontyger,

what stallions are you looking at considering you are looking for a stallion that can cover his fee, support the KY kickbacks, and make it worth your efforts to produce a marketable foal?


Thanks

[Cathy D]

A stallion can only get you so far. If the mare has had a number of foals without producing a stakes horse and/or doesn't consistently throw outstanding physical foals, it may be very tough to produce a profitable sales horse. Sometimes it takes several foals to figure out what a mare throws to, but the market doesn't have much patience with that. I have one that basically reproduces the stallion, but it took me several foals to figure her out, and I made some wrong chices in stallions for her early on. Commercially she has no value, and she will be left open. I think we as breeders need to be taking a harder look at the mares that are being bred unless you are breeding to race. I think there will be even fewer buyers for racing prospects in the next several years due in part to the economy. A lot of folks, myself included, believe a recession is starting.

One thing is for sure, though, your agent and the sales company will always find ways to get paid! Jackson, are you going to dispute the unauthorized charges, or chalk it up as a lesson learned?

[winds]

You know, the more I read the more I like doing anything and everything in a Regional market. Whether it is breeding, racing, selling. I believe that the KY farms, especially the really big ones, don't give a rats patootie about anything or anyone but the bottom line. Now, Marquax Farm is an exception. I've had nothing but the truth from them and I've been dealt with in a positive and professional manner by them. They are also very respectful and listen.

On the other side which is the sales, I've only used Marquax and Green Willow ( based in MD ) . Carolyn Green of Green Willow is blunt, honest and very conservative in her estimations of what your horse will bring at the sales. Thankfully for all concerned our horses brought more than 2x what she thought they would bring. But, I'd rather have it that way, than a grandiose estimation and a huge let down.

She is one of the people I don't check up on regarding the care of my horses. She does things the way I do them, I feel no concern when my horses are in her care. I respect her and her decisions. My horses are always treated like Kings and Queens, they look great and have an extremely positive attitude when they leave the farm for the sale.

Because of what is going on in MD regarding the slot issue, she no longer stands stallions. But, she does foal mares, will shuttle them to stallions, and of course does the sales prep. If you are in the mid Atlantic or are considering sending a mare to a stallion in MD, PA, consider Green Willow farm as a place to send your mare. Also, especially for sales prep they are awesome.

I can attest to them because I have dealt with them in the past. This is not to say any other MD or PA farms aren't as good. But I just wanted to pass on my experiences with Green Willow.

winds

[Gerry]

Winds..we have bought several mares that were consigned by Green Willow and they know the horses inside and out. The also leave alittle tag with the horse (attached to the halter) with immediate needs such as last deworming and product, last vaccines. I am not positive but I think many many years ago they stood my first stallion before I bought him (late 80's) and he was very well mannered and had been taught exactly what to do and when (he wasnt the easiest horse to handle but he had manners). In PA I would use Marshall Silverman for sales prep but wouldnt hesitate to use Green Willow as well.

[winds]

Gerry,

Yea, Marshall Silverman is excellent too. I'm not surprised that Green Willow leaves all the pertinent info attached to the halter, they do things right.

winds

[jacksontyger]

I was hoping Jerry would handle some mares for me because I knew he would do right. I got into a bad situation at one breeding farm but have found a VERY good one now that also looks at my bottomline. There are very few extras on her bills and the mares are taken very good care of so far. I recently got a bill for deworming ivermectin $10. At some places we know what that would be. She watched a mildly colicky mare for a couple of days and treated it with the vet for $100. I think she wants me for a long term client. The consignor got alot of looks on my filly but ended up with 15% of the money. I have learned my lesson. I have talked to several since then. One big firm recently charged a friend a little over $400 on a buy back at $6K. I thought that was pretty darn fair. I got a rate sheet on another that was 5% $1200 minimum plus $100 day rate plus $10 night watch plus $60 PER DAY MEDS AT SALE plus halter, research, advertising ect. It adds up with some of these consignors. The small breeder is not valued by some in this industry. We live and learn but I am happy at the present with my breeding farm. I honestly have been pleasantly surprised by the vet bills so far. I may change my tune when I have something major (or go and bring it home) but the bills coming from the vet clinics so far have been fair. As a vet, I would like a farm or consignor to talk to me before using my credit card (ie billing me) for items. The consignor revaccinated my filly $100 plus when I had just vaccinated her and informed them of such. It was very frustrating. I did complain and got some items removed from one bill but there were more of the same on the next. Lesson learned try another consignor.
I have looked at every stallion I can think of up to $20K and can't find one that gives me a chance of a profit better than going to Vegas and playing roulette. I am not a gambler but am told in roulette you have a 47:53 house advantage. I agree we are entering a recession and the stud fees and expenses are too high except for the higher end mares 50-60K and up. I agree with Josh Pons it is not so much an overproduction of horses but underproduction of buyers. It is expensive to race horses and I think the high costs have kept people from getting into the game. I don't mean to be a pessimist but I look at every horse in every sales result and it is pretty amazing the odds we the small breeder are up against. Good luck to all. JT