Please Justify this...

[pokeyman]

How do you raise Proud Citizen's stud fee to $25,000 based on 3 stakes winners out of 210 foals to race?

[AscotStud]

you're adding in his 2yo crop from this year, which hasn't had the chance to run yet. Yes it's a bit steep, but at least it isn't as crazy as the way Ashford yanks their fees up.

[LB]

The correct numbers are 3 stakes winners out of 53 foals to race.

[Hold Your Peace]

And one of those stakes winners is the very impressive Proud Spell.

They won't have any trouble at all getting $25,000 for him.

He's done very well so far.

A better question might be how is Mineshaft not standing for $7,500 given how he's done so far?

[bdw0617]

that's a very good (and tough question to answer) question.


isn't empire maker at 100,000?


on proud citizen his yearlings sale for an avg of $53,000 and about 40% of his 53 runners have won. i think it was well worth the bump.


the worst bang for buck is ALDEBARAN. outside of mineshaft and sky mesa of course

[pokeyman]

Well, I never go by runners to stakes winners only foals of racing age to stakes winners. I think by going runners to stakes winners that leaves out the fact that a large perecentage of foals might not make it to the track (not specific to Proud Citizen, I mean in general).

I think the bump to $25,000 is bogus and complete BS. How the heck they can bump these young stallions to fees above proven stallions like Sky Classic, Mutakkdim, Petionville, etc is beyond me. I mean, for Pete's sake, Langfuhr stands for $25,000!!!!!

[LB]

Well, I never go by runners to stakes winners only foals of racing age to stakes winners. I think by going runners to stakes winners that leaves out the fact that a large perecentage of foals might not make it to the track (not specific to Proud Citizen, I mean in general).

"Horses of racing age" is different than "foals to race" which you mentioned in your first post. That was why I corrected your figure.

The BloodHorse currently lists Proud Citizen as having 146 registered foals, of which presumably about half would be 2YOs. They may be of racing age, but there's no place for them to race yet. So factoring them into the statistics doesn't give an accurate view of what's going on.

[pokeyman]

Well, I never go by runners to stakes winners only foals of racing age to stakes winners. I think by going runners to stakes winners that leaves out the fact that a large perecentage of foals might not make it to the track (not specific to Proud Citizen, I mean in general).

"Horses of racing age" is different than "foals to race" which you mentioned in your first post. That was why I corrected your figure.

The BloodHorse currently lists Proud Citizen as having 146 registered foals, of which presumably about half would be 2YOs. They may be of racing age, but there's no place for them to race yet. So factoring them into the statistics doesn't give an accurate view of what's going on.

Thanks for the correction. Yes, I meant foals of racing age.

I still don't think this young stallion had done enough to share a stud fee with Langfuhr or be close to Silver Deputy. But...I think most stud fees are horrific and way out of place!

[bdw0617]

well let me play devil's advocate.


if his foals are selling for 50k, why isn't the stallion farm allowed to up their profits? it's only fair.

[pokeyman]

well let me play devil's advocate.


if his foals are selling for 50k, why isn't the stallion farm allowed to up their profits? it's only fair.

Oh, PLEASE don't get me started on the commercial aspect of the industry!!!! It is completely ruining the sport and makes me want to vomit.

I don't think I have enough text space to write how I truly feel about commercial thoroughbred breeding!!!

Of course, I breed to race and race my own and wish others did as well. I could go on and on about my true feelings regarding commercial breeding and "marketing" but I'd be here forever!! BTW- Yes, we are small breeders but not "backyard" breeders by any means (example-have a Cozzene coming this Spring.....please be a filly!!). And no...it will not be offered for sale!

Is it my fault that ignornant idiots line up to buy drugged up yearlings for insane prices due to "marketing"? Um, let's see how are those Silver charms doing? I could go on and on....

95% of stallions do not have appropriate stud fees in my eyes. Is Distorted Humor worth $300,000? Conversly, why the hell is Rahy only $60,000?

*Sigh* Commercial breeders don't give a sh*t about the sport. They see dollar signs. They will breed to a 3 legged horse if they thought they could make money. Buyers better smarten up and demand soundness and reasonable prices as that is the only way things will ever change.

Ok..I have stepped off my soap box. Sorry!!

[bdw0617]

you are preaching to the chior.. but the fact of the matter is, the foals ARE selling for 50k. from a business standpoint, they are throwing away money.


I gotta tell ya. Proud Citizen at $25K doesn't seem like that bad a deal if at all. you could do much worse than proud citizen. If you want to cry, cry about sky mesa and Johannesburg.

[Taino]

I absolutely loved Proud Citizen at $12,500, but I let my partner talk me out of it. One mare would have been a double RF thru Tamerett and Natalma, the other an RF thru Natalma (both are Northern Dancer line). This year, only one of them was accepted to his book, and now my partner loves him! I still like him at that price, but our bank account despises him.

[springboro]

ok... I had thought I was up to date on my terms and nomenclature... help me out!

what is RF? I know i should know this!!

[bdw0617]

Rasumssen Factor

[reenci]

ok... I had thought I was up to date on my terms and nomenclature... help me out!

what is RF? I know i should know this!!

inbreeding to a superior female and being 5x5 or less......4x5, 4x3,...ect