Pedigree Query

Seems like a lot of my horses end up going 6 furlongs, dirt and turf. Bored with that. Who are some of the top sires that will give you a good classic distance horse.

I know AP Indy is one...

Mineshaft i think before its all said and done will be a very good route sire.

dray, route sires here in the States are few and far between. And the few that are here are getting up in age i.e., Dynaformer, Cozzene, El Prado. I feel as you do about all the sprinters. Wish we had more 12f and longer races. They are so fun to watch!! But you pose a very good question.

Larrygene

Any sire who's out of fashion with bloodstock agents and pinhookers, generally.
My personal favorites are any tail male descendants of Ribot: Pleasant Tap, Go for Gin, Albert the Great, Cetewayo, Valiant Nature.
Also, tail male to Unbridled usually gets you a nice late bloomer who can go a route of ground. But, just as important are the female families and broodmare sires who are stamina influences.
The problem is that most races are written for sprinters, because most track horses are trained that way and not two minute licked or cross trained for durability and endurance.

There are dozens of sires that can produce what you want but they're generally not the ones that your bloodstock agents will steer you toward at the sales.

Think too about the fact that the sire only provides half the genes. A dam who is sired by Pleasant Colony or Dynaformer, for example, can add plenty of "bottom" to a pedigree.

People dont want to breed for distance or turf and its frustrating. We stand 2 stallions who are bred for both distance and turf and its like pulling fingernails to get mares to them. I agree with the other posters..if they are out of fashion, they are what you are looking for.

You can breed for a router all you like, but the sad truth is the tracks don't write many races over a mile anymore.

Is anyone else dealing with a huge disenchantment with the sport recently? Screw this, I'm going to England. At least they 'chase.

Gerry wrote:People dont want to breed for distance or turf and its frustrating. We stand 2 stallions who are bred for both distance and turf and its like pulling fingernails to get mares to them. I agree with the other posters..if they are out of fashion, they are what you are looking for.

I was actually going to use one of Gerry's stallions as an example of a turf/distance pedigree that is unfashionable [but didn't want to point to one of her stallions as unfashionable, until she brought it up].

Her Dunsinyne set 11f & 12f turf records at Pimlico & Philly Park & is a Kris S. son, from the family of Sweetsouthernsaint -- their dams are full sisters, although Dunsinyne's dam has much the better race record].

I personally think that commercial is defined as sprinter/miler with good marketing, whether we like it, or not.

dray33 wrote:Seems like a lot of my horses end up going 6 furlongs, dirt and turf. Bored with that. Who are some of the top sires that will give you a good classic distance horse.

I know AP Indy is one...

El Prado
Dynaformer
With the right mare, Smart Strike and Awesome Again
Theatrical (BIG TIME stamina)
Pleasant Tap
Kingmambo
Rahy
Street Cry
North Light is bred for it, as is Pleasantly Perfect
Sky Classic
If he breeds to his female side rather than his dad, Consolidator might be interesting
Lemon Drop Kid

Also don't forget that all the Derby and Classic winners have been able to go 10 -12 furlongs on the dirt. Many of them are still at stud, and at reasonable prices. Consider Real Quiet, Holy Bull, Pleasant Tap, etc. I love Albert the Great.

I watched the derby this year with a bunch of uninitiated friends who were quizzing me on horse racing along the way. When I explained that they only race once around the track, I was surprised at the number of people who stared at me in complete astonishment saying that's IT? Maybe the solution is as simple as that... apparently within the general public at least, there could be a demand for longer races...

I know people argue that they would have trouble filling 12+f races, but I'm sure if they put some $$$ into it and eliminated an equal number of short races, people would realize that no matter how long the race, somebody's bound to win it so they might as well try.

I think that part of the problem now in identifying 'routers' is that there are no good races to sort them out. How do you even define what you mean by a good distance horse? Is it one with plenty of speed that can canter through a long race and lay it on at the end? Or is it one who can run at a medium clip all day? Since there are so few classic and 12f races in the US, I get the impression that we are selecting for 'hares,' fast horses who run a long race strategically once or twice in their careers instead of breeding for the 'tortoises' that have true stamina. Maybe some of our horses are tortoises, but since we never run them long distances routinely, it's impossible to sort them out.

Let's not forget that the statistics for Average Winning Distance (AWD) for stallions and broodmare sires is skewed to sprint races in the USA, making it seem that only sprinters are winning.

But since so relatively few horses are winners, and so relatively few horses are sound enough to mature into the better paying distance races, it appears that most American sires haven't and/or can't produce winning progeny at 9+ furlongs. In Europe, where the 2yo's often can begin their careers on turf and in route races, the sires' stats would reflect more distance ability.

Chances are that many of today's sires can produce routers when bred to the right mares, and when the progeny are raced on turf and/or route races early in their careers.

What about Arch at 25k in case you don't ahve 150k lying aroung for his Daddy ?

I just don't seem to get it. In Europe we are making good use of American breds/American blood.
Look at Generous for example: http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... hp?t=20510
Is there really such a big difference between American TB's and European TB's?
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... highlight=
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... highlight=
Is speed mostly an American "thing" and stamina mostly a European "thing"?
http://www.pedigreequery.com/forum/view ... highlight=

I think there are some newer stallions who might be able to throw a Classic distance horse. Artie Schiller comes to mind, and Kitten's Joy.