Did Claiborne make a mistake?

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:54 pm

...in offloading Stroll to Italy too quickly? He seems to have quite a high percentage of early starters and winners in his first crop.

LB · Postby LB » Tue Sep 16, 2008 4:56 pm

I believe he was leased, not sold. If that's the case, they can bring him back if they want.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 5:02 pm

Oooh, thanks LB. That was smart of them. So do you think that his early performing record is sufficient to warrant bringing him back?

fastappy · Postby **fastappy** » Tue Sep 16, 2008 9:03 pm

I figured this was another Claiborne mistake. I had intended on breeding to that stallion, despite being given reservations by the farm I was going to board with.

Hopefully Claibore will bring him back. You can't ask any more than he's already provided as a 1st crop sire with limited opportunity. I see he only got 11 mares in KY., in 2007 and we know that won't work!

I'm sure he would get a lot more support now though.

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 9:52 am

It's worth noting that he is not a physically impressive animal. In fact, quite common and small.

Obviously that has no reflection on what kind of sire he can be, but add in his turf over dirt preference and it does explain the limited interest.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 2:11 pm

Well, English Channel is small and turf-only, although I don't think he can be described as common looking.

We have a Juvenile Turf B.C. race now, do we not? Stroll could at the very least be a niche-market kind of horse if the precocity of his first crop is any indication. Turf is increasing in popularity, I wouldn't be counting out turf horses just right now, they could be a good bargain.

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 4:57 pm

I never said discount turf stallions. In fact, I prefer turf fillies for my broodmare band, but if people are looking for the reasons for the lack of support while he was at Claiborne, the reasons are clear.

Hell, I don't even think Claiborne really supported him with any of their own mares.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 6:59 pm

Thanks for the clarification, ASB, didn't mean to offend and am glad of the input. I am curious as to how Stroll looks. You said he is 'common-looking'. I'm not sure what that means exactly.

And what turf stallions do you like for your broodmare band and in general, ASB? Would you have considered Stroll yourself?

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Wed Sep 17, 2008 8:55 pm

Stroll was not only extremely small, but he was also very feminine if I remember correctly. He looked like a small mare.

He was also narrow and off-set a tad, I believe. He just had an over-all look of anything but class.

You would never have guessed he was anything but some backyard riding pony when looking at him.

As far as my (small) broodmare band, I look for value and outcross vigor to the major sirelines.

I focus on as much Caro as I can get. I've also added Wild Again, Flower Bowl (His Majesty and Graustark), and as much Frizette via sources non-Mr. P and Seattle Slew.

I'm also adding a few select South American families.

Firebrand · Postby **Firebrand** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 9:45 pm

I briefly looked at Stroll as an option for a mare that I own, but I couldn't get past his photo. To me, he looks Mr Prospector-ish, only worse. However, his looks didn't seem to keep him from being able to perform on the track - $795,071 in earnings! I would be interested in seeing how his offspring look. Anybody know???

He is still listed on the Blood Horse Stallion Register. Here's his photo. See what you think... :wink:

fastappy · Postby **fastappy** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 9:37 am

[quote="Firebrand"]I briefly looked at Stroll as an option for a mare that I own, but I couldn't get past his photo. To me, he looks Mr Prospector-ish, only worse. However, his looks didn't seem to keep him from being able to perform on the track - $795,071 in earnings! I would be interested in seeing how his offspring look. Anybody know???

He is still listed on the Blood Horse Stallion Register. Here's his photo. See what you think... :wink:

[img]http://ftp.firebrandmkt.com/firebrand/stroll.jpg[/img][/quote]

That's undoubtedly why he was not supported, since Kentucky is all about sales. If you're breeding for race horses you're looking for an athlete, determination, and the breeding. Stroll has all of them.

I know ASB states that the horse is small, but the TT stallion directory indicates he is 16.1! With a 2.19 AEI vs 1.25 CI, he's clearly passing on the athleticism so the appearance becomes more of a moot point, similar to other stallions with comformational faults that you breed around. Examples of horses with conformational challenges that proved highly successful would be, Dynaformer, Danzig, Seattle Slew, etc.

ASB · Postby **ASB** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:11 am

Feel free to ask anyone who's seen him. That horse is no part of 16.1.

And anyone looking to breed to race isn't going to support an unproven stallion with a very underwhelming physical UNTIL that stallion proves his merit.

Stroll is getting there. I still wouldn't proclaim him the heir apparent to anything until he can get graded stakes horses.

He's certainly off to a promising start, though.

fastappy · Postby **fastappy** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:27 am

ASB you recall him being extremely small and both BH & TT stallion directories list Stroll as 16.1! Perhaps you are correct, nonetheless his produce record thus far is pretty impressive.

geowarrior · Postby **geowarrior** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:47 am

Interestingly, I saw an ad in the Thoroughbred Times Today newsheet that tt puts out and there was an ad from Claiborne which was reminding everyone that Stroll is their horse and noting hip numbers currently for sale.

Claiborne hasn't mentioned Stroll for months.

Firebrand · Postby **Firebrand** » Sun Sep 21, 2008 11:59 am

And anyone looking to breed to race isn't going to support an unproven stallion with a very underwhelming physical UNTIL that stallion proves his merit.

I agree.

Ouch, unfortunately that means that it will take several years to see what that stallion is going to produce. It's got to be tough on the farm to wait that long to see results, especially when you aren't getting much support from outside breeders.

I have wondered if Claiborne tends to cut their homebred stallions a little too soon, looking at Forty Niner as an example. Not only did he become a good sire, but also now a sire-of-sires. I guess it comes down to the economics of making more money by leasing or selling the stallion than trying to stand and promote him yourself.