Pedigree Query

What do some of you think about Soul of the Matter as a stallion?? He was an excellent racehorse, winner of over 2 million and lost by only a 1/2 length to cigar in the dubai world cup and after racing he was sent off to japan to breed, where he has had quite a few stakes winners. He was brought back over here in 2004 and bred to mares in 2005, not a lot obviously. His foals are now 3 year olds of 2008. He just had a 3 yr old break his maiden first time out at santa anita on sep. 28th. His name was mobilized.

Why would a horse be sent to japan in the first place and then brought over here to california, and not kentucky. Do you think his fee of $2500 is worth a breeding?? He's only 40 minutes from where I'm located...and I have connections with the owner of the ranch so the fee could possibly be reduced....

Soul of the Matter is by Private Terms. Private Terms was a sound steady sire of useful horses. He began his career in Maryland and finished in Kentucky at Claiborne Farms. He sired 47 stakes horses and 76 earners of $100,000.00 or more. Five of every six horses he sired actually made it to a race. Of those 73% won a race and 11% of the starters were stakes horses. Most of his get were not precocious. Most liked a distance. Late maturing, sound, two turn horses require patience and money. I do not know the comparison between the progeny of Private Terms and Soul.

If time is not of the essense then he may be a good choice for a race foal.

Here is some Brisnet data (as of 11 Oct 08) on Soul of the Matter;

LEADING RUNNERS:

Soulful City (1999 C, by THE MINSTREL) $0 in NA. Winner at 2, $165,836,
in Jpn. 3rd Kokura Nisai S. (Jpn).
Tokai Yell (2000 C, by SUNDAY SILENCE) $0 in NA. 5 wins at 5 to 6, $783,599,
in Jpn.
Mejiro Owen (2000 C, by =MOGAMI (FR)) $0 in NA. 5 wins at 3 to 5, $535,721, in
Jpn.
S U Garden (2000 C, by NORTHERN TASTE) $0 in NA. 3 wins at 3, $459,052, in Jpn.
Clover Tateyama (1998 F, by REAL SHADAI) $0 in NA. 3 wins at 3 to 4, $416,965,
in Jpn.
Yamanin Matter (1999 C, by REAL SHADAI) $0 in NA. 3 wins at 2 to 4, $405,960,
in Jpn.
Soul Music (1999 F, by =MARUZENSKY (JPN)) $0 in NA. 3 wins at 3 to 5,
$391,588, in Jpn.
Meiner Prosper (1999 C, by =MOGAMI (FR)) $0 in NA. 2 wins at 2 to 3, $387,281,
in Jpn.
Bamboo Shimba (1998 C, by EL GRAN SENOR) $0 in NA. 4 wins at 3 to 5, $376,786,
in Jpn.
Wedding Matter (2001 C, by REAL SHADAI) $0 in NA. 3 wins at 2 to 5, $342,758,
in Jpn.


SALES RECORD

-- Colts -- -- Fillies --
Yr Sold Type # Sold Avg Price # Sold Avg Price

2004 Weanlings 0 0 0 0
2004 Yearlings 0 0 0 0
2004 Two Year Olds 0 0 0 0

2005 Weanlings 0 0 0 0
2005 Yearlings 0 0 0 0
2005 Two Year Olds 0 0 0 0

2006 Weanlings 0 0 0 0
2006 Yearlings 0 0 1 1,000
2006 Two Year Olds 0 0 0 0

2007 Weanlings 0 0 0 0
2007 Yearlings 1 1,300 0 0
2007 Two Year Olds 0 0 0 0

2008 Weanlings 0 0 0 0
2008 Yearlings 0 0 0 0
2008 Two Year Olds 0 0 0 0


By SOUL OF THE MATTER (1991), black type winner of 7 races, 2 to 4,
$1,502,818, Super Derby -G1, etc. Sire of 8 crops, 141 foals, 125
starters, 28 winners, $7,163,876, including =Soulful City (Jpn)
($165,836, 3rd Kokura Nisai S.), =Tokai Yell (Jpn) ($783,599), =Mejiro
Owen (Jpn) ($535,721), =S U Garden (Jpn) ($459,052), =Clover Tateyama
(Jpn) ($416,965), =Yamanin Matter (Jpn) ($405,960), =Soul Music (Jpn)
($391,588).


In The Stud - SOUL OF THE MATTER, 1991

--------By Crops (All Seasons)--------- Seasons (All Crops)
Wnrs $ Crop Av Per Wnrs
Yr Fls Rnrs (Sws) Earnings Rnr Yr (Wins) Earnings
=====================================================================

1998 32 32 8( 0) 1,787,123 55,848 2000 0( 0) 21,386
1999 30 30 11( 0) 2,110,643 70,355 2001 11( 13) 1,244,600
2000 27 27 6( 0) 2,305,327 85,382 2002 12( 12) 1,422,554
2001 15 14 2( 0) 621,233 44,374 2003 12( 15) 2,087,264
2002 14 12 1( 0) 290,917 24,243 2004 2( 4) 825,510
2003 4 4 0( 0) 35,920 8,980 2005 4( 5) 778,266
2004 0 0 0( 0) 0 0 2006 2( 4) 676,681
2005 14 6 0( 0) 14,001 2,334 2007 0( 0) 95,997
2006 9 1 1( 0) 26,400 26,400 2008 1( 1) 39,306
2007 5 0 0( 0) 0 0
2008 4 0 0( 0) 0 0


Sire Summary

8 Crops Lifetime Current
Starters (/Foals) 89% 6%
Winners (/Foals) 21% 1%
Winners (/Starters) 23% 11%

Total Starts 1,082 29
Total Wins (/Starts) 5% 3%

Total Earnings $7,191,564 $39,306
Ave Earnings/Starter $57,076 $4,367
Ave Earnings/Start $6,647 $1,355
Median Earnings $6,398 $2,182

Blacktype Wnrs(/Foals) 0% 0%
Blacktype Wnrs(/Strs) 0% 0%
Blacktype Horses(/Foals) 1% 0%
Blacktype Horses(/Strs) 1% 0%

Sup Runners (/Foals) 1% 1%
Sup Runners (/Startrs) 1% 11%

Ave # Years Raced 1.85 2.33
Ave Starts/Year 4.64 3.22

All Foals Colts Fillies
Sire Production Index 0.13 0.10 0.14

End Of Search

I think the answer to your question is right here:

By SOUL OF THE MATTER (1991), black type winner of 7 races, 2 to 4,
$1,502,818, Super Derby -G1, etc. Sire of 8 crops, 141 foals,125
starters, 28 winners,

125 starters and 28 winners is AWFUL. They're running, but they're not winning. He has 8 crops, so that's 6 crops to race. He should have more winners now, flat-out.

He probably is throwing durability, so he'd likely be useful for event horses, but at $2500 a pop for racehorse stallion? Pass.

When I looked in the Blood Horse Stallion register for 2007, Soul had 273 foals from Japan, 232 starters (85%), 146 winners, (53% from foals, 62% from starters), and 20% 2 year old winners, earnings of over 10 million. That doesn't sound so bad.

Do the stats supra include his Japanese crops?

Now, given I've been working with Hanoverians most recently, but I *truly* dislike the way that Soul of the Matter is put together. I think he is an ugly SOB, I also think it comes honestly from the bottom side of his pedigree (TV Commercial).



No part of him fits together with any other part. And well... could his front legs be any shorter? His head any coarser? And what is up with his pasterns that they're hiding in the grass?

By the looks of how well Ca breeders have (not) sent mares to him it's doubtful anyone thinks much of him as a sire. The small number makes me wonder if there were any outside mares sent to him at all, probly just EA Ranch mares? I'll also guess his owner brought him home from Japan to give him a nice life where he could go visit and have fond memories of his racing days with him. I believe he is still owned by Burt Bacharach.
There is also that slight possiblity that Soul Of The Matter as a sire might fit the variety of AWT surfaces out here.
Adrienne if you don't appreciate these looks don't go look at Unusual Heat , well don't look beyond his position on the BH sire state listings.

Adrienne if you don't appreciate these looks don't go look at Unusual Heat , well don't look beyond his position on the BH sire state listings.

Hahaha, I had to look!

I like him much better actually. I like his head and neck bunches better. He has the same lack of quality in the hind end (actually, Soul of the Matter's is actually nicer angle wise, but just too small), but with him I don't feel like it's a balance issue as much as a weak stifle/gaskin issue. And at least they are showing me he's got a decent pastern on him and he's not downhill. I'll even forgive him the filling in the ankles, I like him that much better, lol.

I can give him the excuse that he's one of those stallions that would look WAY better of they were a gelding - in that they don't wear the secondary sex characteristics well. I've noticed that in a lot of pleasure QH stallions, that they look GD awful, but their gelding sons are cute... basically because the underlying conformation doesn't lend itself well to the stallion muscling. So if Unusual Heat was a gelding, I could see him being a fairly nice type.

Soul of the Matter though, he'd be a damn ugly gelding too.

Haha.

But let me just say why I care about type so much. We had a mare (A TV Commerical mare, actually) who was a dumpy thing like Soul of the Matter (which is why I'm saying it comes honestly from the dam's side). She was a runner and she was definately durable. She wasn't much to look at. Surely she earned her right to the broodmare life because she could run and she had a little pedigree to back her up. However, the entire situation made me nervous because I *knew* (statistically, haha) that some of her babies weren't going to be able to run and damned if I could ever find a home for them in that situation because they were just a useless type for any other profession. Not to say that thoroughbred people shouldn't be breeding primarily to produce racehorses, just that there are a lot of stallions and a lot of mares out there with good type - so why not breed with them? We definately have enough breeding stock in this country to breed for runners and for a good athletic type that will have second career.

It's like this. I was looking at some $$$$ warmbloods one day. Among the bunch was a really dumpy looking mare (short front legs, coarse structure, FLAT croup, short neck, ugly head) and the owner was going on and on about the pedigree, potential, etc. I will say the mare wasn't a bad little riding horse, but I have a general idea for a horse. If I can't get $1000-1500 for a horse at the salebarn based soley on it's looks without any extra information... I don't really think it's worth $25k+ lol. Soul of the Matter, out of context, probably wouldn't bring much of a bid at the local salebarn, he fails this test

And judging from some of the statistics that people have put up here, he might not bring much IN context either

I'd really like Soul of the Matter to get some mares and reward these people for bringing him back. We can't really tell what kind of sire he would be with Japanese earnings, which are way inflated from American earnings because of the tremendous handle they have there.

I must say that he must be pretty homely in person, because you know they tried to have a professional photographer get a good picture of him. But...pretty is as pretty does! And I have no idea about his personality, but he looks like a nice friendly guy. Maybe he passes that on, and his get with be easy to work with!

adrienne wrote:could his front legs be any shorter?

A knowledgeable horseman once told me that a good racehorse often has a long forearm and looks like his knees are below the center of his leg. Nice short cannons don't snap off, and look how straight the cannon is, not tied in at all.

His barrel looks a little potty. They should ride him and shape him up like at Three Chimneys, then take another picture.

But you might be right about the pasterns. A good photographer knows what to hide...

majxmom wrote:

adrienne wrote:could his front legs be any shorter?

A knowledgeable horseman once told me that a good racehorse often has a long forearm and looks like his knees are below the center of his leg. Nice short cannons don't snap off, and look how straight the cannon is, not tied in at all.

Oh, I totally agree with you there. Short cannons and short pasterns and I'm happy! It's the overall length of leg compared with the body mass that I'm thinking of - stride length and all that good stuff.

For example, one click on the leading sires list... #1 Smart Strike:
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