Pedigree Query

I just received a letter from Darby Dan today that states they are offering 25 free breedings to Sun King, Nobiz Like Shobiz, Magna Graduate and Run Away and Hide for "breeders in selected regional markets". "In exchange, the stallion owner (or syndicate) shall be named co-breeder of the foal and breeder's awards shall be split 50/50."

Although none of my mares fit with these stallions I do commend Darby Dan for offering selected breeders a unique opportunity in these troubling economic times. I'd like to see more stud farms follow suit by thinking outside of the box to come up with unique ways to deal with these times!

What kind of "deals" would you like these stud farms to offer?

Stonewall Farm sent PA breeders essentially the same offer - and probably breeders in other states, as well.

It's a great offer, if you've got a compatible mare & definitely don't intend to sell her.

I'd like to see what kind of creative ideas the stud farms could offer for mares who might be sold in-foal - I still come back to the fact that with certain mares, I want to be free to sell them in foal & don't want to be tied to selling to a buyer in my state. And the stud farm is making the offer to get breeders' money in a specific market, so I'm not sure there's a common ground for this kind of mare.

In any event I agree - both farms should be commended for being creative.

I think everyone got the Stonewall letter. I got 2 copies...

A friend of mine submitted two mares to Stonewall - both half-sisters to stakes winners - and they were turned down. Stonewall said they "weren't good enough." So even though they are offering these free breedings, they are being very picky.

Ah. Good to know. Wonder if Darby Dan is being so picky.

Before I read this thread I thought I was doing pretty good with the Darby Dan profit protection plan! I am glad I have not signed the contract yet. It will be an interesting phone call on Monday to find out the difference. However, the profit protection program seems fair as both the stallion owner and the breeder share the risk and reward of selling the foal. The devil is in the details.

Chuck

I am in LA just came back from Keenland while up there did go to Stonewall and they have accepted 2 of my clients mares on the 50% breeders award program. They are not just utilizing nicks they are using some type of pedigree cross history that doesn't just include sire lines it dams that have been succesful on the past history. The mares they took were not the best of the group but based on history had potential for serious racing.

I also went to Darby Dan and they are also doing the 50% breeders. both facilities are trying something diferen it benefits them and they are still getting numbers on the ground.

I respect all the stallion facilities that have tried to be creative in these hard times, reducing fes is helpful however, lots people don't have the money to pay stud fees since they have taken serious hits this year. I would like to see them do more foal shares and out of proceeds. I also think they should look at last years contracts and adjust the at least 50% on the difference of where they were last year and they are now. All those people that paid more last year are going to be hurt upon sale of those foals.

What reginal markets are they targeting?

Fanlew wrote:I am in LA just came back from Keenland while up there did go to Stonewall and they have accepted 2 of my clients mares on the 50% breeders award program. They are not just utilizing nicks they are using some type of pedigree cross history that doesn't just include sire lines it dams that have been succesful on the past history. The mares they took were not the best of the group but based on history had potential for serious racing.

Again, interesting - you just described exactly the mare(s) we would send, if any. We look at nicks but pretty much never make breeding decisions on them, although a good one is always a plus. We spend enormous time seeing what sire lines or female families our mares' families have had success with. And we look at conformation matches. If that's how the stud farms are making their choices for regional breeders' awards, that's a plus, in my mind.

With the market self-correcting & the economy in the shape it is in, for at least the next several years, we expect to send most of our small foal crops to the track in lieu of to the sales, so that should be a plus to the stud farms, too.

But anyone who is in Pa. and has a mare that Stonewall will accept will have to pay the roundtrip transportation to Ky. (if you're located in eastern Pa., could run around $1,000) plus the day rate Stonewall charges to keep the mare (don't know what that is, but assuming at least $30 per day). It's going to be expensive, even though you get a free breeding.

I have previewed all the stallions at Stonewall and Darby Dan.
They do not board outside mares.
You may go to some of the boarding farms locally for 20-22 a day. The man I have been using for 4 years for my clients and myself is reasonable and doesn't eat me up in vet bills. I sent a mare to him on a Monday I new she was coming in season, already cultured her and she was bred on the Friday she arrived one cover had her back on the bus at 45 days. If your mare is clean and you get her ready at your farm it is possible to be done in a short period of time. If you are close enough to drive her in then you can set appoinment and breed off the truck. I have friends in Fl, states they have been doing the back and forth thing and they come out a head. i wouldn't consider it with a problem mare but one without issues its a thought.
Transport is not cheap but were not paying stud fees and you own the baby. Your giving up 50% of the breeders awards.
The states are LA, PA & Darby Dan is doing NY.

Bohemia, you broke the code. Free breeding, enormous expenses, and they target regional markets where they get the split on the breeders awards, for stallions to build credentials that should probably be in regional markets already. And, as the mare owner you are limited with options for your mare. For my mares in KY it is a little hard to swallow I have to pay a stud fee, and my mares in TX I potentially get the same stallion for free. Being commended in tough economic times- not so sure that is what it is. Now the profit protection plan, that is a different story.

As Fanlew pointed out, you are giving up 50 percent of the breeders' awards. In Pa., they can be quite substantial, especially in the allowances they've been carding at Philly Park, which are pushing $70,000. I guess if you really like some of Stonewall's stallions (I personally love Medaglia d'Oro, but would never be able to own a mare that they'd find acceptable for him) it's worth a try. But there are more and more new stallions moving into Pa., some of them first-year sires, that you could breed to and you would be able to keep your entire breeders' awards down the road.

Bohemia wrote:But anyone who is in Pa. and has a mare that Stonewall will accept will have to pay the roundtrip transportation to Ky. (if you're located in eastern Pa., could run around $1,000) plus the day rate Stonewall charges to keep the mare (don't know what that is, but assuming at least $30 per day). It's going to be expensive, even though you get a free breeding.

Tinner's way wrote:Bohemia, you broke the code. Free breeding, enormous expenses . . .

Code???? I thought that stuff was a given, not a hidden expense. Bigger than the region, but I still wouldn't call it enormous.

Yep - the mileage is farther, the day rate higher & you definitely want your mare there the shortest time possible. But saving those costs might cost you, if you are breeding to sell.

If you read the sale results, you'll see the KY-sired PA-breds out of mares with commercial pedigrees are still the only ones that are bringing any money. If this is your niche, saving the costs in KY may actually decrease your profitability.

As someone with a PA stallion, I still hate it, but at this point, it is a fact of life.

Since that auction yearling may be bought by someone in Asia or Eastern Europe or anywhere else in the world where statebred money isn't available, you say good-bye to breeders' awards & get what you got at auction & the stud farm gets nothing [but hopes it's the BEST youngster to go to that country so they at least get bragging rights].

If your goal is to breed a racehorse & your mare has an unfashionable pedigree but a family that consistently produces useful racehorses on one of the families or individuals found in the stallion's pedigree, if you can get her approved, you can still offer to pay the stud fee. That is if you believe so strongly that the foal will have a long & successful career in the state where bred that you can recoup the stud fee & much more from the breeders' money.

I don't think the stud farms have any altruistic motives - they are making a business decision, weighing the possibility of getting way fewer mares than the shareholders want against the possibility of getting compatible mares whose owners can't afford the fee in this economy, but who just might have mares who will send money the stallion's way a few years down the line.

The stud farms are willing to risk the wait for the possibility of breeders' money & for at least the possibility of being pleasantly surprised by good individuals in regional markets, against not getting many mares & no future money.

I never even considered that free fee meant no other expenses. IF both you & the farm agree one of the stallions suits your mare, it's still not a bad deal.

Bohemia wrote:As Fanlew pointed out, you are giving up 50 percent of the breeders' awards. In Pa., they can be quite substantial, especially in the allowances they've been carding at Philly Park, which are pushing $70,000. I guess if you really like some of Stonewall's stallions (I personally love Medaglia d'Oro, but would never be able to own a mare that they'd find acceptable for him) it's worth a try. But there are more and more new stallions moving into Pa., some of them first-year sires, that you could breed to and you would be able to keep your entire breeders' awards down the road.

I think we posted at the same time . . .

I DO agree with this - those compatible stallions might be anywhere & there ARE good new sires in PA, and some may become very useful sires in the area. IF the mare-owner has a solid plan for getting the foals to the track.

But it seems more & more people expect to breed & sell the foals, but not race - which means the number of breeders has increased, but I don't see a matching increase in the number of people who want to own racehorses & that means its up to the breeder to find a way to get their own horses to the track, if the breeder's money is integral to their business plan.

[Edited to make the following sentence make more sense . . .]

It's for the ones who don't want to get their own foals to the track that I say that so far, it still is the KY-sired PA-breds that attract, if not owners, at least pinhookers.

I'm not saying breeders shouldn't try to breed to PA sires or that they shouldn't try to sell the foals. I'm just saying that if it doesn't work, they need to be prepared to get them to the track themselves if necessary, since those breeders' awards are central to their business plan.